Daily Japanese Thread DJT #1196

RavySnake
RavySnake

Cornucopia of Resources / Guide (read Guide before asking questions):
http://bitlasers.com/djt

Previous Thread:
https://archive.org/a/thread/130274585

All urls found in this thread:
http://bitlasers.com/djt
https://archive.org/a/thread/130274585
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZMGb6ec3Os
https://www.mediafire.com/#sux0p8sv3ch2e
http://strawpoll.me/5372270
http://strawpoll.me/5372300
http://strawpoll.me/5294533/r
https://archive.org/a/thread/129932115/#129941918
https://mega.nz/#!7wMihLCa!CyLrXHKf4A3428zqtHWEXyUnkbSRv__bDXYadmbmC5E
https://www.reddit.com/r/LearnJapanese/comments/3593mg/a_bit_of_ruby_to_enhance_your_anki_experience/
http://lingwiki.com/index.php?title=Japanese_Particles
http://www.lingholic.com/how-many-words-do-i-need-to-know-the-955-rule-in-language-learning-part-2/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZMGb6ec3Os
http://www.asahi.com/paper/editorial.html
https://kotobank.jp/word/%E3%82%82-644757#E5.A4.A7.E8.BE.9E.E6.9E.97.20.E7.AC.AC.E4.B8.89.E7.89.88
http://strawpoll.me/5372936
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_European_Framework_of_Reference_for_Languages#Common_reference_levels
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoWtAiWU2Ro&list=PLINFE8v4DOhsnhC58pqjXBCSNpU66tTG8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOoEUswSAy0
http://www.mediafire.com/?93atzwak7dx47-
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/buddha-board
http://iknow.jp/content/japanese
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/buddha-board?mode=guest_open
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_the_well
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IR3cJ_yYzhA
https://mega.nz/#F!ro8U0apD!ne4trowThvlaOx6qW7JMjw
https://mega.nz/#F!CMtGhCzD!2Yw8vL8jw3vei7QkGyno-w
http://bookwalker.jp/series/997/
http://www.jcafe24.net/index.php?topic=23795.0
https://archive.org/a/thread/120635485/#120669483
https://archive.org/a/thread/120635485/#120636640
DeathDog
DeathDog

なるべく諦めない!
なせば大抵なんとかなる!

As long as you never give up and you keep pushing to better yourself, you'll make it no matter what. You CAN learn Japanese!

Evilember
Evilember

おにいちゃん おしおきして
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZMGb6ec3Os

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

I want daily kanji back, that was more fun than dumb motivational spam at the top of every thread.

TechHater
TechHater

@DeathDog
I hope so because I can't even speak my native English

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@TurtleCat
There were glorious motivational posts during the daily kanji era too.

farquit
farquit

@PurpleCharger
It stopped being glorious after the 30th time

likme
likme

@farquit
Then you can filter him in 2 seconds. I like them.

Skullbone
Skullbone

@likme
You can look at'm in the archive at your leisure.

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@Skullbone
If you don't want to filter him then don't complain about seeing him. End of conversation.

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

It turns out there were 2 separate cards for なかなか all this time.

hairygrape
hairygrape

@BunnyJinx
If you want to have a post spammed daily, don't argue against people being unhappy with it. End of conversation.

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@TurtleCat

whynotboth.jpg

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

How are these threads anyway lately?
ive been bored of bantering here and just make one post every ten threads

@TurtleCat
You know you can actually do them if you want
hes fine

Booteefool
Booteefool

@CouchChiller
Muted, argumentative, sad
I think the bulk of vanguards have left and all that's left are bitter and condescending advanced people (such as myself) and despairing beginners

StonedTime
StonedTime

@RavySnake
Does anyone know how to extract the epub from the Neowing ebook reader CDjapan uses for their digital manga? I've tried using a tool made by someone over at jcafe24 but double clicking on the exe doesn't do anything. Someone in the archives reported this error and the "solution" isn't doing anything on my end. I want to extract and upload scans of ひだまりスケッチ8巻 to the CoR.

Japanese companies are the biggest fucking jews when it comes to DRM.

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

Does anyone here read LNs on their smartphones?

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@Booteefool
condescending advanced people

How advanced? I might hang out than. You guys have always been good with questions since I started a year ago.
I am going to be advanced at some point im already doing well with it.
I drank too much coffee and quit my job and bought small adderall sorry for blogging.

I mostly left because there was the RTK trolls argument again for the 100th time in the last year.

I like that new guy on top with the motivational its cute

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@Ignoramus
Advanced enough to have full confidence in their own method, i.e. the RTK trolls you mentioned. Which is still going on by the way

askme
askme

@Booteefool
bitter and condescending advanced people (such as myself)
I'm willing to bet you're not actually advanced if you're running down beginners.

Inmate
Inmate

Jesus, this porn author has written "威きり勃っているチンポ" literally over ten times within like an hour of this nukige. I'm glad I'm good enough to feel annoyed with repetitive phrasing but seriously what the heck. Same thing for 弓なりに-something. Jesus.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@askme
if you're running down beginners.
Have no fear, I'm the kind of poster who always helps beginners, though I've given less advice over time as more and more people do so themselves. RTK fags though they may be. I was mainly thinking of other people (or rather one person in particular) when I said condescending.

Booteefool
Booteefool

I'm gonna become fluent guys, just wait.

Techpill
Techpill

@AwesomeTucker
Fuck off you fool.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@Techpill
Here they come

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

Day: 8/365 (2.19%)
Manga: 6/365 (1.64%) +1
Light Novels: 1/52 (1.92%)
-
鏡の国の針栖川 第1巻

5mileys
5mileys

@Burnblaze
RTK trolls

I dont mind if they do it. Theres plenty of ways to learn but fuck the same arguments and same rsponses get fucking tiring.
Part of the reason why I left. Theres always been arguing but its annoying when people argue just to fucking argue nitpicking SOMETHING just to win because they are too bored to actually read new info

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

Day: 243/365 (66.42%)
Manga: 14/52 (26.92%) +1
Visual Novels: 11/12 (91.67%)
-
あずまんが大王 第1巻
Comments: Osakaben is hard ;_;
@Garbage Can Lid
Will ew-kun recover from his 2 manga deficit? Will his second light novel just widen the gap? Stay tuned

Illusionz
Illusionz

今日は火曜日です。私は日本語を勉強しています。

takes2long
takes2long

@Inmate
close nukige after posting this
reopen it and read 3 lines
弓なりに反り返ったチンポ
Shit.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@Illusionz
赤丸が大きい日の丸は、侮蔑の意味で使われるの知ってるか

Illusionz
Illusionz

@Illusionz
you're not benkyoushiteimasing if you're posting in djt.

farquit
farquit

@StonedTime
Fuck it; I'm doing it manually. It might take a while but I paid money for this and will be damned if I'm going to be stuck using it with their DRM viewer. If anyone is interested pic related is the quality of each image.

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@farquit
Nice. Will be waiting for the final result.

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@Ignoramus
@Burnblaze
There's no such thing as an "RTK troll". Skipping RTK is retarded. Mostly just a few vocal anti-RTK trolls.

Flameblow
Flameblow

@Nude_Bikergirl
Do not listen to this RTK troll, he is trolling people into wasting their time like he did.

TechHater
TechHater

@Nude_Bikergirl
here we go again

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

ここはしっかり叱った方がいいわ!感謝の気持ちを持たせることは大事よ!

Anyone get what the second clause is talking about here? It's important to hold feelings of thanks? What?

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

弓なりに鋭く反り返り

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@Flameblow
You're the one trolling people into wasting their time like you did by telling them to skip RTK. Doing Japanese without knowing kanji is literally retarded.

TechHater
TechHater

@Illusionz
本当に?どこですか?

Supergrass
Supergrass

Is RTK the starting strength of /djt?

King_Martha
King_Martha

@Flameblow
@Gigastrength
Is it only a few months of RTK?
I already finished core2k but maybe ill try it after I finish rading DOJG and the deck associated with it

girlDog
girlDog

@Flameblow
90 IQ and too stupid to understand anything other than instant gratification
makes shitpost images based on the above

Emberburn
Emberburn

@King_Martha
You can do it with Japanese keywords if you want. Your pace depends on how fast you go.

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@King_Martha
Depending on how much time you put into it probably 1-3 months.

SniperGod
SniperGod

@TalkBomber
It hurts all the more finally reading this page in the tank. Seeing scans in Kirara made it easy to pretend this never really happened. I can't take this shit, Ume.

Anyway, this process isn't all that slow. Keep the final product as png or upload a batch converted to jpg?

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

It seems just this month (august, that is, so last month) I read 3 nukige, 2 moege, and 1 plotge. That's 6 VNs in one month (albeit doing mainly just the common route for each). 6 vns is certainly higher than my initial goal of 1 VN (a month). Feels good.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

I love you guys though tbh
I am just listening to anime and ive come so far
Still suck though

SniperWish
SniperWish

Does anyone actually read the DoJG from cover to cover?

That seems extremely inefficient IMO. Anki burns me out super quick; I can't image having to go through so much text.

FastChef
FastChef

今日は櫂にこの屋敷での生活を知ってもらおうと思ってるの。

The 知ってもらおう is throwing me off here. How can you even use 知る out of progressive form?

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@SniperWish
I did the anki deck which linearly marched through the entries. I consider that method pretty much objectively superior to reading the book cover to cover from a time:effort standpoint, considering just how many of the entries were essentially vocab (あえて for example) that only needed a couple example sentences to be easily understood.

idontknow
idontknow

@SniperWish
I am reading it right now cover to cover. I skimmed through a bunch of the thingsi n the beginning but I still read it. I am using the DOJG deck and reading. I am going through the first one and its going by extremely fast because I already know everything so far. Honestly if you read a bunch you should already know a lot of it and what you dont know will come to you easly if you use the DOJG deck

I used to be against reading it front to back but once I started doing it along with other resources I find it to be an extremely good use of time.
Don't think about how long it will take to complete it since you're going to be learning for years. Five months along with reading or whatever is NOT long for skills that are ging to last you forever in this hobby.

Emberburn
Emberburn

@Burnblaze
just the common route for each
Might as well just read the description and mark it as finished.

Evilember
Evilember

@idontknow
Is the deck you're using on the spreadsheet?
The link doesn't work for me

WebTool
WebTool

@Emberburn
For many games the common route is longer than the character routes. Nanairo Reincarnation is 95% common route. Natsu no Iro is 90% common route if you only do one girl's route, which is likely considering how god-awful the game is. And so on.

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@SniperWish
That seems extremely inefficient IMO.
Reading the respective entries as they are due to be reviewed for the first time using the DoJG anki deck, the newest one, is probably the most efficient way to study grammar. Everything in the books are really well explained and each nuance has examples so that when reviewing, a lot of it comes back to mind. It is far better value for time than various online guides written by amateurs- no offence to them but the difference is worlds apart- or textbooks which are bogged down with mindless repetition and attempts to create a narrative structures the lessons and whatnot.

I can't image having to go through so much text.
All things considered it is light on text. I'd actually recommend it for the concise nature. After having read through swathes of explanations of certain concepts online and in various textbooks, the explanations in the books really cut to the chase.

@Evilember
Which spreadsheet are you using? This is the link which works for me:
https://www.mediafire.com/#sux0p8sv3ch2e

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

Can you learn Japanese before it kills you?

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@Burnblaze
It doesn't count as read if you're cheating like that.

Soft_member
Soft_member

@Sir_Gallonhead
What a pussy
Just do somethign else if it hurts him that much or take it slower.

Methnerd
Methnerd

何よりここに拾ってもらったような身分だ

What the fuck does this mean?

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@Methnerd
Are you posting the shit out of context on purpose or you're just retarded?

RavySnake
RavySnake

@Poker_Star
If you're too retarded to answer it with the context given then get back to studying.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@RavySnake
what does this mean
you are retarded if you don't understand it

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@Raving_Cute
I never said I read them completely, just that I read them and actually made significant progress into them. If I counted VNs I barely touched I'd be deep in the double digits.

No idea why people are being anal about what "is" and what "is not" reading. I read a lot of the VNs, without exploring all the choices, sure, but I read more than I didn't, so I consider them read. It's like reading 10 volumes out of 11 of a manga series, then people saying "ah no you didn't read the series, you cheated!". Either way it's 10 volumes of Japanese text completed and read.

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@CodeBuns
Yes. Exactly. The question is aimed at people who know Japanese. Not retards like yourself. Retards aren't allowed to answer things above their heads.

Spamalot
Spamalot

@Methnerd
どういういみなのか ぶんみゃくがみえてこないんだよ

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@Spazyfool
Because you're using mental gymnastics to pad your numbers so you can feel better and brag anonymously. One route != read.

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@Carnalpleasure
pad my numbers
I list any VN I don't read to the end of as ~ instead of whatever the next number is.
I didn't "pad to brag" because as you can see, I was totally up front about how much I read in both my original post and the current one. If I wanted to brag I wouldn't have noted that I mainly just read the common route (which itself was just a short way of saying I generally only do 1 character route, which is generally dwarfed in length by the common route).

Sheesh guys, this is some next level autism

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@Flameblow
would of been much better if the super saiyajin would of told the super saiyajin teeth guy, he writes the vocab.. Complete shut down.

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@Ignoramus
I've had people say that writing on vocab is "non-standard" and "improper" or something. You can never shut down an RTK-fag for they are slimy snakes.

TreeEater
TreeEater

@TurtleCat
I don't mind the motivaspeech too much but a Daily Kanji would be a lot more useful.

RavySnake
RavySnake

@Sir_Gallonhead
that's like telling a kid he can't copy the word "bookstore" off the board because he hasn't wrote the words "book" and "store" enough yet. That makes no sense.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@PackManBrainlure
You weren't upfront. You said you read VNs and you didn't. It's really that simple. One route != read.

Flameblow
Flameblow

dont really bother with anki
can read most stuff easily, my main problem is slowing down as i read too fast and the occasionaly word i may not know.

What is fluency?

Illusionz
Illusionz

@RavySnake
You aren't supposed to write them over and over. Just a few times. Or at least, that is Heisig's intention.

Booteefool
Booteefool

@kizzmybutt
albeit doing mainly just the common route for each
Original post, loser. Upfront as you can get.

DeathDog
DeathDog

lets do this /djt/

http://strawpoll.me/5372270

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@Booteefool
I read 3 nukige, 2 moege, and 1 plotge. That's 6 VNs in one month
Also in the post. You definitely tried to convince yourself you "read" these VNs. The common route in g-senjou no maou is like 40% of the game for example.

massdebater
massdebater

@AwesomeTucker
I happen to be pretty familiar with the VNs I read and how long the common routes were in relation to the characters routes. And as for convincing myself, I clearly delineating my logic here @Spazyfool
and here's no self-deception going on, I just considering "read" something different than you do. No idea why you're being anal about it when this is clearly a situation where two people "agree to disagree" and that be the end of it.

WebTool
WebTool

@DeathDog
8months in
only read half of TK
Been reading for months
So I guess im intermediate?

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@massdebater
Because you didn't read 6 VNs in one month no matter how hard you try to change the definition to make it true.

Illusionz
Illusionz

@DeathDog
advanced
15k words

Lunatick
Lunatick

@AwesomeTucker
not him but why aren't you fluent yet?

that pretty much a whole book every 5 days

Still i guess it depends on the difficulty of the text and how long it is.

cum2soon
cum2soon

@DeathDog
You missed out on an option: http://strawpoll.me/5372300

iluvmen
iluvmen

@DeathDog
these questions are vague and you're going to get terrible response distribution.

Inmate
Inmate

@Lunatick
Because he obviously didn't read 6 VNs in one month. He did one route for each and convinced himself he read them all.

Snarelure
Snarelure

@DeathDog
Some user made one already a while ago. Which was better, even, sorry bro.

Results : http://strawpoll.me/5294533/r
https://archive.org/a/thread/129932115/#129941918

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@BinaryMan
I mean, if you really want to be anal, I can clarify it as "I read the common route and 1 character route of 2 moege and 1 plotge, and also I read a significant number of scenes from 3 nukige" if you want to be anal but I don't consider that significantly different from my original post except that it perhaps avoids your autistic wrath.

TechHater
TechHater

@Snarelure
All straw polls are equally terrible.

Inmate
Inmate

@Spazyfool
They are. The fuck is the point of gathering statistics is there is absolutely no reliability of the data? You stupid fuck.

idontknow
idontknow

Do the poll as "which is the hardest sentence you can reasonably read without cheating" with sentences of increasing difficulty.

1) This is a pen.
2) がんばる
3) これはペンだ
4) etc

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@Inmate
-> @Spazyfool

Methshot
Methshot

@SniperGod
you will never know this feeling

ひだまりスケッチ第08巻 is up:
https://mega.nz/#!7wMihLCa!CyLrXHKf4A3428zqtHWEXyUnkbSRv__bDXYadmbmC5E

@Flameblow
What is fluency?
What is love?

@TalkBomber
Please stop shitposting.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@Inmate
here i was thinking i read fast i tend to read each text box in less than a second but maybe more if its kinda confusing or if the text is difficult

askme
askme

What manga/LN/VN/whatever helped you the most with your reading /djt/?

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@CouchChiller
Yes, that's my reading speed. Or perhaps the better way to say it is that I finish lines before the VA finishes speaking. I think that's a line that separates new readers from experienced readers.

It only took me 1 day to read the character route in the 3 VNs I read with character routes. Let's see.. that'd add around 8 days to the month, making it 38 days for the 3 VNs. Excluding nukige because that's an autism can of worms I don't want to touch.

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

Can you say すももも桃も桃のうち three times fast?

DeathDog
DeathDog

My friend doesn't know japanese. He's korean. He's american, though. So when he wants to read VNs, instead of learning japanese or using english translations, he machine TLs them to korean.

RumChicken
RumChicken

@askme
Anything and everything I read.

FastChef
FastChef

@askme
Hello everynyan

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@askme
分からへん

King_Martha
King_Martha

Are there decks with furigana or is that just cheating and dentrimental to my learning?

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@King_Martha
core?

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@askme
whatever you enjoy
as you'll be tempted to read it

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@kizzmybutt
it has furigana? i cant seem to turn it on.

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@King_Martha
If it's on the front it's definitely "cheating" and detrimental. You won't learn to read kanji well at all.

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@Booteefool
im sorry for being dumb

Inmate
Inmate

@GoogleCat
you don't need it as there is a vocab field but still you could try this

https://www.reddit.com/r/LearnJapanese/comments/3593mg/a_bit_of_ruby_to_enhance_your_anki_experience/

or

{{furigana:Reading}}

likme
likme

Just how many common words are written in katakana? Like a rough percentage

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

N-no Azumanga, not tanlines, not now!
@haveahappyday
Furigana for core is in a field. You go to card layout, change up the field names, and done.

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@likme
don't bother learning
almost anything can be written in katakana

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@likme
Not really a meaningful question. Depends a lot on random circumstance. Enough that you need to know it

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@PurpleCharger
Don't bother learning
Why would I not learn katakana?

@Fuzzy_Logic
It was more of a curiosity thing. Most words written in katakana are basically freebies with vocab too, since they sound so similar to english.

idontknow
idontknow

I can read jap with little trouble as i would with english.
I don't really worry about adding words or anything i just keep reading, there are words i might come across that i don't know and i just get what they mean through context.

can i stop?

I just have trouble with texts that are pretty jargon based or vocab i don't know.

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@idontknow
Who are you asking?

StonedTime
StonedTime

@Inmate
@PackManBrainlure
I can't seem to figure out how to do it on a phone. I'll do it later then.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@idontknow
I just have trouble with texts that are pretty jargon based or vocab i don't know.
Well there you go.
Conquering grammar, while no small feat, is something that happens FAR before one gains enough vocab to be considered fluent. Language learning is 20% studying and subsequentally 80% vocab acquisition. You're not done until you can read anything you want to with ease and converse with natives.

Illusionz
Illusionz

The feeling of progression is wonderful. I've been holding myself back for years, making tiny incremental advancements based mostly on observations because I felt overwhelmed with Kanji, but once I started reading http://lingwiki.com/index.php?title=Japanese_Particles and using rikaikun more, it's like everything started falling into place.

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@SomethingNew
I mean words in katakana, i mean sure there are some katakana only words that are pretty common other than that don't really bother.

Evilember
Evilember

difficulty

vocab>grammar>kanji>=katakana>hiragana

thoughts?

FastChef
FastChef

@Evilember
put grammar at the bottom and remove the =

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@Evilember
Kanji is a lot harder than grammar.

Illusionz
Illusionz

@idontknow
This is called pre-enlightenment. My guess is you consider anything that's not slice of life moege shit to be "full of technical jargon". Have fun on the ride down.

cum2soon
cum2soon

@Evilember
Difficulty:
Grammar > Kanji > Vocab > > > Kana
Tedium / Length:
Vocab > Kanji > Grammar > > > Kana

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@cum2soon
Maybe if your definition of grammar is Tae Kim level shit it is really quick, but in reality grammar takes much longer to grasp than kanji I think.

RumChicken
RumChicken

@Illusionz
i have trouble reading stuff like hanachirasu when they talk about WW2 other than that not much stuff gives me trouble.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@RumChicken
Can you give an example?

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@TurtleCat
It's kind of like, it won't take *that* long to get grammar up to a strong level. But it sure will take forever to master, just like anything else.

In comparison to Kanji. It's relatively "fast" to finish the joyuou, you but you will spend years picking up random kanji, even possibly decades after attaining fluency. Likewise, it's fast to master the grammar used in 99% of situations, but it can take years to really learn the intricacies.

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@FastChef
grammars pretty tricky how far are you?
@GoogleCat
depends where you are at, you just need to recognise kanji through strokes but with grammar you need to recognise and apply it when reading.
@cum2soon
i guess this seems better

Emberburn
Emberburn

@Deadlyinx
grammars pretty tricky how far are you?
reading plotge and japanese wikipedia

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

read whole volume of manga today
Shit, manga are harder than VNs for me to complete, simply because of how reliant one becomes on tools to quickly look up words. I feel more rewarded after finishing a manga volume than a chapter of a VN, though.

Methshot
Methshot

What font can I use on firefox to be able to quickly and clearly see the kanji without leaning in? My vision got fucked up from all the videogames and anime in a dark room.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@Methshot
Are you on windows? Set the default japanese font to meiryo.

FastChef
FastChef

@Methshot
How about getting fucking glasses?

massdebater
massdebater

@Stark_Naked
I just tend to have problem with the words they sometimes use, i guess they may be kinda archaic and plus the info dumps when they talk about the war and stuff as there are tons of words terms i don't know and it kinda gets me kinda as if i were a beginner.

Its one of the the few texts i kinda need text hookers for (i barely need it for other stuff i read, i keep it around for the few odd word in other texts) even then they don't help as much as some of the words don't have definitons and i just have to assume their definitons.

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@Emberburn
yeah but why would it be under hiragana?

@TurtleCat
just guess it
if i mentioned warping through hormholes and breaking the time space continum you don't need a dictionary definition to have a grasp

Illusionz
Illusionz

@AwesomeTucker
No him but Shit never changes when I do on chrome

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

http://www.lingholic.com/how-many-words-do-i-need-to-know-the-955-rule-in-language-learning-part-2/

thoughts?
500,000*95/100
25,000
for fluency

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@FastChef
金は持たない

Emberburn
Emberburn

@kizzmybutt
I think you should aim for a vocabulary the size of a native, and a native knows a lot more than 25,000 words, probably close to double. Personally I know around 25,000 myself and I am not happy with my level and am still making progress every day.

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

犯すために日本語を習らう。
無垢な女性めと仲良しなったばっか酷い事をする
呻き声を聞くなんて。。。
反乱らしい涙だらけ顔を見るなんて。。。

ふふふ

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@kizzmybutt
A very common question that people ask when starting the study of a foreign language is “How many words do I need to know in order to be conversationally fluent for everyday talk in X language?”
everyday talk
So those 25000 words are just to be able to read moege.

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@Emberburn
You likely think you know more than you do.

Booteefool
Booteefool

@RavySnake
How should I practice my grammar?

Aside from re-reading Tae Kim's guide, how do you actually make the concepts stick long-term? I found some sites where I can repeatedly practice adjective and verb conjugations, but is there anything beyond that?

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@Fuzzy_Logic
Well I have 23,000 words added to Anki and I know plenty of easy ones that I didn't bother with, so I would say I know at minimum 25,000 words.

w8t4u
w8t4u

@Emberburn
25000
jap words?

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@SomethingNew
tfw started jap seriously 2-3 years ago
keep deleting my decks
don't know how many words i would have by now

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@PackManBrainlure
I started 2-3 years ago as well, so probably similar to me. Although it's not like I was super consistent either, but I did manage to do my reps every day at least even during the times when I did nothing else.

viagrandad
viagrandad

@TurtleCat
What do you read now, or rather what can you read?

likme
likme

>>130300007
Easier light novels, manga, vn's etc. I can get by for the most part without a dictionary. However if I read something harder new words begin to pop up. Author I'm unfamiliar with, genre stuff, etc. Words that natives would know and I don't. Not just media though, news and 2ch as well. And then once you go ever harder like books from aozora bunko the unknown vocab level rises even further. Vocab that well-read natives would probably know.

Emberburn
Emberburn

@likme
still after 2-3 years you should be near fluent

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@Emberburn
According to who? I don't think it's practical to reach native level fluency in only 2-3 years (which I would hope would be most people's goal).

inb4 someone talks about "conversational fluency" xD

likme
likme

@BunnyJinx
sorry didn't mean to green text

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@BunnyJinx
AccordIng to retards on here who think using a texthooker is reading and that anyone who "tries" can go from absolutely nothing to passing N1 in a year. The vocal minority of shitposters, basically.

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@BunnyJinx
Still shouldn't stuff you read be near the advanced near fluency level?
I mean the begginer stage takes a couple months
you should be around 6000 vocab in about 6-7 months (even quicker if you do more than 30 words a day)
you can get 9000 words in 6 months if you do 50 a day
After that is the intermediate plateu give that a year or so and there you should be at the advanced level

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@BunnyJinx
6-7 months?
I still havent finished core 2k-6k 8 months in

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@Sharpcharm
how many words do you do a day?

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@Garbage Can Lid
20, I stepped it up to 30 2 weeks ago

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@SomethingNew
Post stats?
I'm curious.

likme
likme

@BunnyJinx

Anyone who doesn't distinguish between "fluency" and "high level proficiency" is either completely ignorant of serious language learning (i.e. viewing proficiency as on-off switch where you're either a completely dysfunctional beginner or never have any questions that an educated native wouldn't have, rather than the reality of it being a progressive process; common among people who've never studied, or have only taken lousy classes) or completely out of touch with reality as a result of leaving their house about twice per year.

If you were in Japan, you wouldn't be putting any "XD" after the prospect of being able to work, make friends, and generally participate in Japanese society. People who can live decently in a town where nobody in a 50 mile radius speaks their native tongue but would get lost if you sat them down with a novel are relatively common.

RavySnake
RavySnake

もちつけ しりつけ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZMGb6ec3Os

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

tfw stopped doing reps in june
tfw today is September 1st

I didn't listen Sheeky Forums

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@likme
My goal is not fluency if your definition of fluency includes not being able to read a novel that an (average) native could read. My goal is specifically native level fluency.

TreeEater
TreeEater

@likme
If you were in Japan, you wouldn't be putting any "XD" after the prospect of being able to work, make friends, and generally participate in Japanese society.
And who gives a fuck about that? This thread is for learning to read manga, LNs, VNs and watch anime and you would need much higher proficiency for that than a couple of stock phrases.

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

http://www.asahi.com/paper/editorial.html
今回の概算要求で目立ったのも、米国製兵器の購入を優先させる姿勢だ。
Is this も an example of this も?
https://kotobank.jp/word/%E3%82%82-644757#E5.A4.A7.E8.BE.9E.E6.9E.97.20.E7.AC.AC.E4.B8.89.E7.89.88
⑥ 詠嘆・感動の意を表す。 「書き-書いたり,一日五千枚」 「こう-暑くてはやりきれない」
Or is it the ordinary 'also'

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@likme
after the prospect of being able to work, make friends, and generally participate in Japanese society.

Why the fuck would I want to work there, or make friends with Japanese people?

I can't even stand participating in Western society. Fuck Japanese society.

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

アイ カン スピーク ジャパニーズ 

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@Raving_Cute
またアカヒかこわれるなあ

(前回の概算要求で目立ったのが、米国製兵器の購入で)今回の概算要求で目立ったのも、~
という意味で書いてます。同盟国以外から武器買うはずねえじゃねえか。朝日は特定アジアカルト新聞に改名しろ

FastChef
FastChef

@Stark_Naked
@TreeEater

Fluency is having a decent quality of life in an isolated Japanese farming town where nobody speaks English. Just shouting stock phrases obviously isn't any good for any scenario where you actually need to understand them and be communicate in return, especially if you actually have to live in the country. Quit being an idiot. Being able to work and make friends isn't on the level of parlor tricks that you use to show off to people who don't speak Japanese.

I'm not saying that fluency should be the end of the road, but there's a relatively objective breaking point where one can be considered fluent, and it's a long ways before you're able to read Muramasa without pause. Where is that point? When you're able to handle 95% of social situations that you might encounter in the country, and you just instinctively spit it out instead of tripping all over yourself or having to search for words.

The concept of fluency might be useless for your average DJT member who has no intention of speaking with Japanese people, much less going to the country, but that doesn't mean that it shouldn't be distinguished.

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

so, who /90daychallenge/ here?

cum2soon
cum2soon

@FastChef
But you have to understand that that is just your definition of fluency. It is not agreed upon and is often used to mean different things in different contexts. That is why most people who are serious about language learning dislike the word.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@cum2soon

It's the one that's the most consistent with reality.

If you were to say that you're not fluent until you're on par with an educated adult, then native kids, uneducated native adults (especially the illiterate), and many perfectly functional immigrants who don't just hole themselves up in their little communities aren't fluent.

Obviously, that's a pretty stupid thing to try to claim.

hairygrape
hairygrape

http://strawpoll.me/5372936

JunkTop
JunkTop

Fluency is B2 (per definition, not test).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_European_Framework_of_Reference_for_Languages#Common_reference_levels

C1 and C2 are post-fluent.

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@Sharpcharm
So it was that after all. Thanks.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@Spazyfool
Don't forget to read a lot, and listen a lot.

And make sure to enjoy the language!

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@hairygrape

What do I win?

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@TurtleCat
Im horrible when it comes to listening practice
I cant keep up at all with whats being said so I dont feel like its actually helping at all
I can recognize a few words here and there but thats it

Supergrass
Supergrass

@LuckyDusty
At the beginning, you're supposed to read and listen to what you're reading

You can listen in isolation when you have a good grasp of the language

It's difficult until you have lots of words anyway

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@LuckyDusty
Just listen to stuff. The quantity is more important than the quality of the practice almost. Pick some light series and just watch it. Like the hamster girl. Anything that you feel ok with ruining by not understanding basically.

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@Supergrass
What should I use for starters then? Subbed japanese shows?

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@LuckyDusty

It used to be the same for me, when my vocabulary was minuscule. You can't understand what you don't know.

Since my vocabulary has grown, I find that I'm able to catch a large percentage of the words. My biggest issue right now is processing the words fast enough to keep up with the conversation.

DeathDog
DeathDog

@Poker_Star
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoWtAiWU2Ro&list=PLINFE8v4DOhsnhC58pqjXBCSNpU66tTG8

Firespawn
Firespawn

@hairygrape
tried without looking up words but
does the last line say

Depending on the license, in cases where it was requested by the recipient, the license makes the code be made public

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

how do i get better at writing in japanese

キーボードで日本語をうまく書くの如何すればいいの?

TechHater
TechHater

@TreeEater
Learning uselses kanji isn't useful.

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@PackManBrainlure
This is why books > VNs.

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@haveahappyday
如何
For starters try not hitting spacebar so much. That is not how Japanese people write.

massdebater
massdebater

@Poker_Star

Learning materials, maybe? If you're in a hurry to start listening.

From my experiences, listening to native material when you don't have the basics of the basics down (decent grammar and maybe 3K vocabulary) isn't 100% completely useless, but it's undoubtedly far more efficient to spend that time with anki and reading.

If you don't have a decent base to work off of, it's going to be gibberish.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@Evil_kitten
Reading, is reading, is reading

Doesn't matter what it is as long as you're learning

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@Evil_kitten
How did you draw you conclusion?

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@CodeBuns
If you've read a book then you've read a book. If you don't read 100% of a VN then you get autists calling you out for not having read the entire thing.

Emberfire
Emberfire

@Harmless_Venom
100% of a VN, understanding and comphrending 100% of it, without the use of a text hooker

Apparently that's the criteria for "reading" these days

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@Harmless_Venom

That's kinda right, though.

Saying that you've completed a VN when you've only read 7/10ths of it is like skipping three chapters for every ten in a book and then saying that you've read it.

VNs are not like normal novels, where you're done when you reach the final page. The team assumes that you're going to go through each heroine's route to see the full story. Until you have, you've only read a portion of the story.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

>>130301908
Nothing bad at all

The only issue is when people use them, but don't make any effort to remember the new words. So they resort to a text-hooker over and over even for words they've seen like 50 times

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

Does anyone have more information on the usage of ~と思ったら = if [you/I] want to [do sth]? I've seen it used like in this example but I didn't find anything about it in DOJG.

本当に楽しもうと思ったらパリへ行かなくちゃ。
If you want to enjoy yourself properly you must go to Paris.

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@Nude_Bikergirl
plan on/intend to

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@Stark_Naked
what I do is skim the textbox to see which parts I recognize the words from

that way I get non-texthooker recognition for words. then I texthooker everything unless I understand everything.

viagrandad
viagrandad

>>130301908

There's strong potential for it to become less of a learning aide and more a crutch. You have to prevent yourself from passively looking at what's basically an augmented machine translation, when you should be actively trying your hardest to memorize and recall words and understand grammar on your own.

Of course, this also means that they're not inherently bad. They can save you from a lot of time-wasting, immersion-breaking shit when utilized properly.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

あのんくんたち Listningにちょうせんだよ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOoEUswSAy0

Soft_member
Soft_member

ハンバーガーをぐれwwwwww
アメリカ人の注文なんて受けないよwwwww出ていけこのデブwwwww
ヤベエwwwwwごりゃアガンわwww

StonedTime
StonedTime

@TechHater
in your mom FAG

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

Do you know what this guy wants?

http://www.mediafire.com/?93atzwak7dx47- a Mediafire of documents and raw manga to get you started with reading Is empty. Can someone update the resources pastebin, please?

I didn't find the link anywhere on the DJT site.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

Do anyone here have the Shin kanzen master n3 choukai mp3 files? Ive been searching for them but nothing comes up.

Skullbone
Skullbone

@Nude_Bikergirl
Just as I had thought X, Y happened (contradicting my thought)

farquit
farquit

@TechHater
Yes it is.

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@farquit
It really wasn't. People learning early kanji already have their anki decks, and people who know 2500+ kanji don't learn kanji outside of useful vocabulary. Except for the one idiot who keeps posting his learned kanji, that is.

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@Sir_Gallonhead
VNs are not like normal novels, where you're done when you reach the final page. The team assumes that you're going to go through each heroine's route to see the full story

This is true for plot games, but only autists read every route of moege. Reading routes for heroines you don't really like is retarded. I'd agree that you have to read at least a single full route to say you've "read it" though.

Evilember
Evilember

@SomethingNew

Only autists with low attention span don't play all the routes.

Snarelure
Snarelure

Have a felony
MFW now I can't ever move to Japan when the housing market collapses from the low birth rate and lack of immigration.

Oh, well, pirating is good enough I guess.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@Snarelure
no degree
can't move to Japan

Dunno if I'd like to live in a country with few white people anyway

takes2long
takes2long

Does the 2k/6k stand for 2k different kanji 6k cards total?

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

憮然

[ト・タル][文][形動タリ]失望・落胆してどうすることもできないでいるさま。また、意外なことに驚きあきれているさま。「―としてため息をつく」「―たる面持ちで成り行きを見る」

[補説]近年、「憮然たる面持ちで」とした場合、「腹を立てているような顔つき」の意味で使われることが多くなっているが、本来は誤り。文化庁が発表した平成19年度「国語に関する世論調査」で、「憮然として立ち去った」の例では、本来の意味とされる「失望してぼんやりとしている様子」で使う人が17.1パーセント、本来の意味ではない「腹を立てている様子」で使う人が70.8パーセントという逆転した結果が出ている。

There's something particularly frustrating about having to learn how the Japanese typically misuse a word in order to learn the language.

likme
likme

@takes2long
No.
Originally there was a core2k with 2k words.
Then they extended it with 4000 more words and created core6k..
core2k/6k means that it includes both.

Techpill
Techpill

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/buddha-board

Just in case anyone likes writing as much as I do, this cool thing is available on massdrop right now.

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@takes2long
1608 unique Kanji for 5999 cards. I think it only means the deck contains the cards from the core 2k, thus why it's called core 2k6k, to avoid people from downloading the core 2k if they're already doing the 2k6k one. Just my guess.

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@Techpill
I don't want to make an account what is it?

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@ZeroReborn
It's a group buying site.

Basically, niche stuff gets available for cheaper than usual, and if enough people commit to buying it, it gets even cheaper.

You can enter any email address, there's no confirmation mail or anything of the sort.

Skullbone
Skullbone

@likme
@BlogWobbles
I see, thanks!

DeathDog
DeathDog

@likme
Who created the core? Did some guy just take stock phrases he found or were there some people who actually sat there recording their voices to make this thing

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@DeathDog
It was stolen from iknow or something years ago. It was a website to learn Japanese.

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@DeathDog
http://iknow.jp/content/japanese

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@Harmless_Venom
Must feel bad to be them, considering the core decks have been floating around pretty much everywhere for a while now.

hairygrape
hairygrape

@Techpill
@ZeroReborn
@Gigastrength
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/buddha-board?mode=guest_open

They got threatened by retailers for advertising the way they do, and put the content behind a login wall.

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@Ignoramus
While the content is great the site is pretty jew-worthy as you can only do your reps on the site, and you have to pay a monthly subscription or lose access to your reps.

Nojokur
Nojokur

@hairygrape
threatened by retailers for advertising the way they do
What? How did they advertise that retailers would threaten them?

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@New_Cliche
Like wanikani then?

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@Nojokur
For example, if Best Buy sells a keyboard X at 100$ and massdrop offer it at 70$, then Best Buy has to sell it at 70$ is someone finds this deal, but if you long on massdrop with an account and accept the fact that it's a group buy and that you can't use this price to compare elsewhere, then it's all good for everyone. If they don't do that, the suppliers won't make deals with massdrop.

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@Carnalpleasure
Yeah, but without arbitrarily limiting your progress. At least on iknow you can go as fast as you want.

MPmaster
MPmaster

Wow, learnjapaneseonline.info is so weeaboo I almost feel bad for them.

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@Evilember
It's not a book. It's a collection of cute girls that you can watch porn of.

girlDog
girlDog

@MPmaster
said user while posting on Sheeky Forums

farquit
farquit

@Stark_Naked
It was stolen
It wasn't stolen because the data was created under creative commons. Using creative commons work is not theft because nothing can be stolen.

massdebater
massdebater

@Evil_kitten
So people can list X books read without being assaulted by autismos?

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@MPmaster
It's beautiful

Shit advice

but beautiful

Firespawn
Firespawn

@DeathDog
just started, on my sixth day. trying to get my hiragana down.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@VisualMaster
Is this person not aware we have a huge catalogue of raw manga and textbooks people can use to get them started reading? That person has posted the question here a few times and if he still hasn't figured it out you are better off ignoring him. The guy can use google and look up beginner manga recommendations for learners then look them up in the CoR.

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@TreeEater
This thread is for learning to read manga, LNs, VNs and watch anime
No, it's a Japanese language learning thread for beginners. This involves more than your comfort zone of what you think constitutes valid appreciation of the language.

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@BunnyJinx
After that is the intermediate plateu give that a year or so
a year or so
lol

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@Garbage Can Lid
At this point this thread is a community that loosely revolves around Japanese language, culture and trolling.

Lunatick
Lunatick

@Need_TLC
that's actually not accurate at all

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

tfw I've already spent 3 hours reading today and it's not even 10 AM
tfw ankidrones are probably still autistically grinding their flashcards

Feels good to be masterrace.

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

My memory is shit. Keep reading Tae Kim, and having to memorize 50 billion conjugation rules isn't working

DeathDog
DeathDog

@Harmless_Venom
K-Komeiji?

FastChef
FastChef

@SomethingNew

Just keep throwing yourself at it. Eventually you'll scratch the doorknob.

Hell, someday you may even open that door.

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@Harmless_Venom
I misunderstand half of what I read and completely ruin the experience because I never bothered to build a solid and reliable foundation of vocab

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@SomethingNew
Do you actually practice conjugation? It won't happen on its on just by reading though the rules twice.

Do the genki workbook exercises, they are perfect for it.

SniperGod
SniperGod

@Spazyfool
I'm gonna do it for Mandrin I'm sorry Sheeky Forums I have failed you. polite sage for off topic

Emberburn
Emberburn

@lostmypassword
I've never looked at the genki workbook, but I guess I'll give it a go

viagrandad
viagrandad

@SomethingNew
50 billion
m8 there are like 5

girlDog
girlDog

@viagrandad
There's more than 5 just for casual past verbs

viagrandad
viagrandad

@New_Cliche
Vocab knowledge has pretty little to do with understanding though. It's mostly grammar, which you get a good feel for after a couple VNs.

I say this as someone who reads physical novels now.

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@SniperGod
What are you using to learn?

TreeEater
TreeEater

@Ignoramus
If you read as much as you should, intermediate should pass in a bit over a year, yeah.

Techpill
Techpill

@TreeEater
It sounds like you're extrapolating based off of your progress as a beginner. stop that.

TreeEater
TreeEater

@Harmless_Venom
@New_Cliche
@viagrandad
Could we stop with the stupid arguments? You need to read and memorize vocabulary to learn this language. Just keep being stupid and doing things one sided.

Nojokur
Nojokur

@Techpill
It sounds like you're extrapolating based on /djt/ memes about intermediate hell.

It's an absolutely absurd notion to be stuck at a sub-fluent level if you read for hours every day for a year. Batshit insane.

Techpill
Techpill

@girlDog
Past tense is literally just 1. conjugate to te-form 2. replace te with ta and de with da. What are you on about m8?

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@TalkBomber
I have an HSK anki deck downloaded, and I'm making a pinyin deck/looking for one to learn all of the sounds. Probably going to switch over to Memrise for the character deck because it forces more repetitions before a card "matures".

Emberburn
Emberburn

@Nojokur
How long have you studied? Have you read the hardest VNs? Can you read physical novels without problems?

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@Emberburn
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_the_well

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@Fuzzy_Logic
I just asked questions. If they are wrong, you are free to say so, but you refusing to answer says a lot.

Bringing up fallacies is a pretty autistic way to argue too, especially when they aren't really relevant.

SniperGod
SniperGod

@Techpill
That's a little more than 1 you silly billy

WebTool
WebTool

@Techpill
Past tense
Japanese does not have grammatical tense. Japanese has perfective.

Supergrass
Supergrass

@Sharpcharm
I'm not who you think I am.

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@SniperGod
ku--ite
gu--ide
u-tsu-ru--tte
nu-mu-bu--nde
su--shite

Congrats, memorize this nonsense poem and you now know te-form and thus past tense.

SniperWish
SniperWish

@Boy_vs_Girl
Right, and now I just need to memorize the 50 billion other rules, and we're good to go!

FastChef
FastChef

@SniperWish
There's like.... 12~ inflections? It's not insignificant I know, but it's nothing compared to harder languages. The thing to complain about in Japanese is kanji, not conjugations.

Booteefool
Booteefool

@FastChef
Kanji is easy. No problems at all with them

It's just remembering which conjugation goes with which rule

Maybe I should just do a conjugation deck

Emberburn
Emberburn

@Booteefool
Kanji is easy.
See you in six months.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@Emberburn
He will only need 3 months to finish rtk

Soft_member
Soft_member

@SniperGod
こんなおぼえかた ぜったい おぼえられないよ

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@Stark_Naked
The hidden specter of kanji emerges after one does RTK or whatever. A hidden specter of dispute phenomenon.

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@Emberburn
I can read and write over 2000 of them

It's my grammar that's a joke

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

finish Hanahira without a texthooker
"Oh man, it was easy. C'mon, next one."
LovelyxCation 2 plays
see first two lines of the game
close the game
cry in a corner

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@Supergrass
Then you're just an idiot who shouldn't have posted. Congratulations I guess?

Evilember
Evilember

@Methshot
I'll be doing the same for あいうら. Different store, different reader; same uncracked DRM. I hope the quality of pic related is okay. Bought the first four volumes and intend to get the rest, upping them in the process. Link to be posted when done. Between an hour and two hours for the first volume to be uploaded to mega, I guess. Depending on time I'll try to upload a volume a day.

On a side note, are there any other works people wouldn't mind having ripped in this fashion? Find the ebook version on either
ebookjapan
cdjapan
and I'll have a consider buying and giving it the same treatment. Having issues with a few other jp sites which have easy to crack drm, unfortunately.

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@kizzmybutt
I really recommend a texthooker. It may feel and sound like "cheating" because of some slander but it's seriously a HUGE boon. Your first couple VNs will be an exercise in new kanji everywhere in addition to longer and harder sentences. A hooker will guide you through.

Bidwell
Bidwell

@Garbage Can Lid
Why do you think a Japanese learning thread is on Sheeky Forums and not on /int/, you retard? It's because mods agreed to leave it alone so that people who enjoy manga and anime would be encouraged to learn Japanese to enjoy their hobby better and maybe start providing more translations. It was before all of you crossboarder and reddit normalshit scum moved in, of course, so you wouldn't know.

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@Bidwell
The reasons were a bit more complex than that

massdebater
massdebater

@Bidwell
mods agreed to leave it alone
No, it was literally kicked out of /jp/ and /int/.
/jp/ has DJT threads once in a while but whenever they last more than two threads in a row meido starts deleting them.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@FastChef
Depends on what you class as an inflection.

辞書形・終止形 食べる
連用形+マス形 食べます
未然形+ナイ形 食べない
連用形+未然形 食べません
連用形+助動詞 食べた
連用形+接続助詞 食べて
連用形+連用形 食べました
未然形+連用形 食べなかった
連用形+未然形+連用形 食べませんでした
可能形 食べられる
可能形+マス形 食べられます
受け身形 食べられる
受け身形+マス形 食べられます
使役受け身形 食べさせられる
使役受け身形+マス形 食べさせられます
使役形 食べさせる
使役形+マス形 食べさせます
仮定形+接続助詞 食べれば
意向形 食べよう
命令形 食べろ

StonedTime
StonedTime

@kizzmybutt
Alright, with your hyper autism there are 20.

DeathDog
DeathDog

@kizzmybutt
This is why memorizing verbs with auxiliaries attached is a stupid idea.

Just memorize the stems and voicing rules.

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@StonedTime
There are more than that.

Japanese verb morphology is highly synthetical.

Emberburn
Emberburn

@Bidwell
It was before all of you crossboarder and reddit normalshit scum moved in, of course, so you wouldn't know.
I've been here since 2004. You are intruding, newfag. The ONLY reason DJT exists is because mods are lazy. It has nothing to do with scanlations because we have been posting user translations years prior to DJT existing and still have scanlation threads and post scanlations irrespective of DJT.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@Emberburn
Yeah, because deleting a thread takes so much work.

Illusionz
Illusionz

@Emberburn
I've been here since 2003.

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@kizzmybutt
Don't forget 死なくなくなくなくなくなくなくなくない

happy_sad
happy_sad

@StonedTime
having an understanding of Japanese bases is autism
Fuck off with your contemporary anti-intellectualism. Sheeky Forums parted from /b/ a long time ago.

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@kizzmybutt
The prologue of any literary work is always the hardest part to read.

idontknow
idontknow

@Spazyfool
死のだよ

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@AwesomeTucker
then someone else makes a thread :^)

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@AwesomeTucker
That picture is triggering the shit out of me, it's awful fuck.

SniperWish
SniperWish

@massdebater
It was never kicked out of anywhere. /jp/ had their own Japanese threads from time to time, but it's more like people didn't care enough to make it a general and /int/ has many language learning threads as well, including a Japanese thread. Out of all the boards /int/ is the most suitable board for DJT.

@Emberburn
Sure you were. See @BlogWobbles
Nobody says that there were never anons translating shit, you idiot. The reasoning behind allowing a general Japanese thread on Sheeky Forums was so that there maybe would be more of them.

FastChef
FastChef

@AwesomeTucker
That's why the yuru yuri and madoka cirlcejerks have existed for months and months without discussing content. Because mods are lazy and don't give a shit.

Booteefool
Booteefool

@SniperWish
Out of all the boards /int/ is the most suitable board for DJT.
Oh, oh no.
@FastChef
2010fag detected.

viagrandad
viagrandad

@Spazyfool
死ななくなる

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@happy_sad
It's not anti-intellectualism, it's a mild jab at Anon's over enthusiasm for verb forms. Take it easy.
@kizzmybutt
Once a thread gets deleted a couple times the OPs stop making them and that's it.
@FastChef
people discussing anime
MODS

Emberburn
Emberburn

@Booteefool
Oh, oh no.
Thematically, yes it is. The posting quality is another matter.

JunkTop
JunkTop

@Emberburn
Sorry, I don't have a way of writing the tone of voice I was using when I wrote that.

Pragmatically, I was going "Fuck."

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

So, how do I apologize FOR something. Google tells me apology words, which is not what I'm looking for

I want to say
I'm sorry I'm so late

girlDog
girlDog

@Ignoramus
遅れてサ〜セン

cum2soon
cum2soon

weekly "/djt/ does not belong to /a/" discussion that will never lead anywhere as usual

@Ignoramus
遅くなってすみません

takes2long
takes2long

@Ignoramus
遅れてすみません

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@SniperWish
The reasoning
No it wasn't. It was an excuse because the mod was pissed off about people ignoring him when he tried to put a stop to them. Clearly you don't remember how DJT began. Hotpockets tried to put a stop to them but gave into people telling them to fuck off and that we were going to keep making the threads regardless.

@FastChef
It was a recent example.

@haveahappyday
It's not anti-intellectualism, it's a mild jab at Anon's over enthusiasm for verb forms. Take it easy.
Don't back-pedal like an idiot. It was a dumb statement to make in a Japanese learning thread. Fuck off if you can't handle being called on your stupid shit.
people discussing anime
They aren't discussing anime and haven't been for months. It is a image dump roleplay thread. Shit that doesn't belong on Sheeky Forums.

Flameblow
Flameblow

@Ignoramus
わたしわ遅れるすまない
@Poker_Star
Jesus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IR3cJ_yYzhA

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@Ignoramus
遅くてごめんなさい

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@Flameblow
わたしわ

...

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@Poker_Star
They aren't discussing anime and haven't been for months. It is a image dump roleplay thread. Shit that doesn't belong on Sheeky Forums.
The autism is strong in this one. You're getting triggered for the sake of getting triggered, do you realize you're mentally ill? Please get help.

askme
askme

@Poker_Star
Hotpockets tried to put a stop to them
Sure thing bud.

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

ていねい・けんじょう・そんけい のかつようが むずかしいんだよ

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@haveahappyday
Didn't stop the ゆるゆり threads.

DeathDog
DeathDog

@Dreamworx
being this retarded

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

I should start posting my DOJG deck stats Every Single Day again. That would be much more interesting than this.

likme
likme

@Poker_Star
No it wasn't. It was an excuse because the mod was pissed off about people ignoring him when he tried to put a stop to them. Clearly you don't remember how DJT began. Hotpockets tried to put a stop to them but gave into people telling them to fuck off and that we were going to keep making the threads regardless.
Not really. That mod post was in one of the very first threads so after they have become generals with proper Japanese discussion and resources that got posted only once per day regardless of the existence of the previous thread, the mods didn't touch them.

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@PurpleCharger
I was just thinking about how glad I was that the anki-stats poster had stopped. I've grown thick skin when it comes to ignoring daily-spam thanks to Yuusha being an annoying asshole, so I don't mind if you resume.

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@Stark_Naked
The Japanese are honorary Aryans.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

皆さん、お仕事は...?

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@PackManBrainlure
I actually "finished" the DOJG deck so I don't think it would be very interesting. Maybe I should do it with my kanji or mining decks.

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@Ignoramus
今月遅れてるの、あなたの子よ?

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@Stark_Naked
Well, I assure you, it wouldn't be interesting either way, so don't let that stop you.

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@PackManBrainlure
@SomethingNew
How disgustingly pretentious are you? So this is what 95% of /djt/ is nowadays?

Methshot
Methshot

@Lord_Tryzalot
Please don't respond to him like that, he's funny, I don't want him to stop posting. (spam guy here)

RumChicken
RumChicken

@Methshot
Too late

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

The 'big shell radical' 頁 that can arbitrarily be called a 'head', used in 頭 and 煩, it basically never appears on the left, does it? It'd do me good to pay extra attention so that I always draw it on the right, right?

viagrandad
viagrandad

@Methshot
I don't find this particularly funny, this is just sad. I assume most of you people are older than 20, it's to move to move on from the egocentric teenager cliché now.

StonedTime
StonedTime

@viagrandad
Narcissists are hilarious, though. Them being around spices things up as long as you know how to handle them.

Nojokur
Nojokur

@AwesomeTucker
What do beans and big shells have to do with heads anyway?

w8t4u
w8t4u

@Nojokur
Your head is a big shell with beans in it.

Skullbone
Skullbone

download VN
Heroine With Kansai Accent
delete VN

Firespawn
Firespawn

@AwesomeTucker
For what it's worth I know more than 2k Kanji and I'm fairly sure this never appears left.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

What are these?

w8t4u
w8t4u

@TurtleCat
失礼だな貴様

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

頃は睦月二十日余りのことなれば、比良の高嶺、志賀の山、昔ながらの雪も消え、谷々の氷うち溶けて、水は折節増さりたり。

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@Nojokur
It just makes sense
頑 - 頑強 - stubborn, he's been block-"head"ed since the "beginning"
碩 - 碩学 - great + study = brilliant scholar - his "head" cannot be beaten, it's solid like a "rock"

King_Martha
King_Martha

@MPmaster
tfw every post has 0 comments

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@Harmless_Venom
tfw you have to come to Sheeky Forums after everything you do to brag about it because just doing it isn't enough
tfw you'll be back to not reading anything tomorrow and it was just a fluke today

SniperGod
SniperGod

@Skullbone
not loving 関西弁

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@MPmaster
Why do I remember this. It feels like the creator posted about it here or something.

Supergrass
Supergrass

@TurtleCat

viagrandad
viagrandad

@Need_TLC
How does that "just make sense". If you saw 頑 or 碩 without knowing what they meant, you could guess the meaning based on the radicals?

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@viagrandad
ぎょうかんを よめないこは にほんご あきらめたほうがいいよ

Bidwell
Bidwell

@PackManBrainlure
What was the 意味 he was trying to 伝える?

SniperWish
SniperWish

@viagrandad
Certainly in some cases if you have two kanji you can look at the radical for each one and brainstorm on how the two relate until you find something that fits in context, but it isn't often so transparent. It'd be easier to use the radical to look it up in a dictionary.

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@SniperWish
It's easier to just learn all the words, that's my method

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@TurtleCat

Superior taste user.

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@Bidwell
何 だった その 意味 彼 しようとしていた 伝える
でしょう

Evilember
Evilember

@Lord_Tryzalot
That's a lot of grinding flash cards before you're able to read anything not written for children or manchildren.

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@Evilember
learn
flashcards
Haven't you got the memo user? Flash cards are a MEMORIZATION tool not a LEARNING tool
ヘヘ ( ̄∇ ̄*)

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@Sir_Gallonhead
GURL NINJAS GOTTA POO POO TOO

Nojokur
Nojokur

@Evilember
あいうら第01巻 is up:
https://mega.nz/#F!ro8U0apD!ne4trowThvlaOx6qW7JMjw

This is the folder directory. I'll be uploading the next few volumes in the same manner as this one, over the course of the next few days. It's a really cute manga.

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@Nojokur
cathedral.jpg

5mileys
5mileys

わたしわ濡れ鼠です

SniperWish
SniperWish

@Nojokur
I didn't think I'd come to see the day on which the DJT gets its hands on あいうら raws.

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@SomethingNew
Sorry I don't quite understand the reference.

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@SniperWish
Was going to do it before getting distracted with the DoJG update project. There was talk of CoRくん or the guy who was looking after the CoR after, getting scans, but nothing came of it as far as I'm aware of. The manga is too cute not to share. Like a ゆゆ式 lite.

Doing it digitally is a lot faster than waiting for shipping and attempting to scan them. It's a compromise on quality but figure it is better than having no scans out there.

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@SniperWish
That doesn't even make sense though. 石 and 元 in those kanji have no meaning. They were including for pronunciation purposes. It is called 音符. Maybe if you weren't so addicted to making mnemonic stories you would realize that the radicals in kanji are for the most part not related to each other.

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@SniperWish
Physical copies look so nice

viagrandad
viagrandad

@Poker_Star
niceme.me

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@TalkBomber
I bought a physical copy of a book, can't wait for it to get here.

takes2long
takes2long

@SomethingNew
What book user?

Flameblow
Flameblow

@takes2long
I'll post it when I get it
Shipping from Japan takes like a month though
Look forward to it

MPmaster
MPmaster

@viagrandad
This is what an RTK-fag looks like after he gets rekt. He ownd you bro. :3

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@MPmaster
niceme.me

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@viagrandad
? Like 80% of all kanji have one radical for the pronunciation and one for the theme.

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@Burnblaze
Give 80 examples then.

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@Boy_vs_Girl
Yeah, I remember that the original CoRくん had plans to do that, though that was prior to whatever exactly went down and the CoR going down for the first time. Didn't hear from him ever since then.

@TalkBomber
You can get stuff for half the price but still in great condition second hand on amazon.jp

Even new stuff isn't that expensive if you go with cheap shipping.

@Flameblow
Shipping from Japan takes like a month though
SAL shipping?
Usually takes about 2-3 weeks to get to the middle of Europe.

Flameblow
Flameblow

@Evil_kitten
Are you flipping me off, user?
But no I just bought it off Amazon, it only had 1 seller so there wasn't much choice when it comes to shipping. I bought it about 2 weeks ago and it'll be arriving sometime late September, so about a month.

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@Poker_Star
But shouldn't 音符 be the right side of kanji? Why are they on the left here?

音符 ③ 漢字の字音を表わす部分.「銅」の「同」,「晴」の「青」など.

viagrandad
viagrandad

@ZeroReborn














































































Flameblow
Flameblow

@viagrandad
BTFO

StonedTime
StonedTime

@viagrandad
All of those are clearly fish though.

JunkTop
JunkTop

@Flameblow
Are you flipping me off, user?
No, unless you somehow managed to get on the other side of that image.

I'd take a new picture, but my camera battery is dead, and I can't find the charger.

A seller on amazon which ships outside of Japan? That's something new.

All the second hand stuff I have was fulfilled by amazon, so you get their crazy two days shipping with it.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@StonedTime
Yeah the other radical is used for the original Chinese pronunciation.

viagrandad
viagrandad

@Flameblow
@viagrandad
exactly 1 minute between posts

Inmate
Inmate

@viagrandad
That's a pretty neat coincidence

RumChicken
RumChicken

@Stark_Naked
well 頁 does basically nothing for the pronunciation of 頭, so what are you trying to say?

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@RavySnake
BTFO

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@RavySnake
"BUT YOU USED YOUR PHONE I BET"

Nojokur
Nojokur

Is there any VNs I could start reading with a texthooker or something after reading the first two volumes of youtsuba? I rather refer VNs to manga to be honest, so I would prefer getting more experience with the language that way, if possible.

Supergrass
Supergrass

@RumChicken
豆 is the 音符.

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@RavySnake
@viagrandad
exactly the time it takes to remove a (You) in GIMP

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@Nojokur
Whatever interests you

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@Supergrass
But the 音符 goes on the right.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@RavySnake
Well shit user.

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@Need_TLC
GIMP
I literally just threw up in my mouth

DeathDog
DeathDog

@Crazy_Nice
I was thinking more of easier VNs first. I don't really have a specific type of VN that interests me the most.

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@Nojokur
Why play games when you can read books?

TechHater
TechHater

@kizzmybutt
Bad shop, the spacing is clearly off

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@Nojokur
Whatever interests you
I kind of recommend starting with nukige because you can drop them without worries, and because the eroticism is compelling even if the writing isn't

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@viagrandad
@Inmate
@RavySnake
@RumChicken
@PurpleCharger
@New_Cliche
@Nojokur
@Supergrass
@Need_TLC
@Crazy_Nice
@lostmypassword
@kizzmybutt
@Poker_Star
@DeathDog
@ZeroReborn
@TechHater

all me

happy_sad
happy_sad

@lostmypassword
Nope.

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@DeathDog
Well the scenarios in pretty much all of them are written by people who consider themselves to be some kind of author thus tend to use random obscure vocab for no reason other than to be random and obscure. At least mangaka know they're mangaka.

takes2long
takes2long

@Stark_Naked
So you're me?

Bidwell
Bidwell

@GoogleCat
I kind of recommend starting with nukige because you can drop them without worries, and because the eroticism is compelling even if the writing isn't
That's so off.

He'll be spending 10+ hours reading through boring ass writing to get to H scenes. Better to read something interesting.

Emberfire
Emberfire

Struggling to remember any more vocabulary when I'm only at 1100
Anyone want to trade brains?

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

update to windows 10
applocale apparently no longer works
can't play games in Japanese

What do?

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@takes2long
I like talking to myself, don't I.

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@Emberfire
Learn how to look up words based on the radicals in the kanji.

w8t4u
w8t4u

@GoogleCat
Go to settings
Go to updates and security
Revert back to your previous windows version and never look back

likme
likme

@Bidwell
I'm gonna have to lay down true facts here. Nukige don't have in particular boring writing, relatively. Most nukige authors aren't Romeo Tanaka, but plenty are on the same level of Hitomi Tanaka. I enjoyed the first nukige I read, I enjoyed the dialogue, and was interested in what happened. Not all nukige are shitty H-scenes glued together with shitty SOL.

Emberburn
Emberburn

@Emberfire
Your brain is too full. It's all over.

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@Emberfire
I had trouble remembering things when I was 23 and it has only gotten worse since. You're doing well to remember anything at 1100, grandmaster wizard-sama.

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@GoogleCat
was told not to install Windows 10
does it anyway
You brought this upon yourself.

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@GoogleCat
Hi DJT people. I've only been at this for about a week and I've learned the kana and around 120 vocab using Anki. I was just wondering if anyone had any advice about the best way to learn grammar in addition to vocabulary. Is it better to do it alongside vocab early on, or should you wait until you know a good amount of words that can actually be used to string together sentences?

Nojokur
Nojokur

@likme
Nukige don't have in particular boring writing, relatively
They really do. Unless you're comparing them to bad moege where the writing is shit as well.

I haven't been able to read through a full nukige ever.

Spamalot
Spamalot

@w8t4u
@LuckyDusty

So in other words; you guys have no idea.

farquit
farquit

@Ignoramus
Learn the kanji or at least how to look them up, then read a grammar book.

massdebater
massdebater

@Spamalot
getting pissy at legitimate advice

Firespawn
Firespawn

@GoogleCat
updating to botnet
Also google to remove botnet updates for previous windows.

Flameblow
Flameblow

@Nojokur
Are you the guy who ranted about how good 人退 was? Either way, you're over-exaggerating and being fairly pretentious. Just because you have shit taste when it comes to writing doesn't mean a beginner will.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@Spamalot
Just change your region to Japan. Nobody uses applocale.

eGremlin
eGremlin

@Spamalot
You could learn how to use your UI in japanese. In Ubuntu I can just type the word 'lang' in the dash search, select japanese, log out and back in, and be in nip mode in less than 20 seconds.

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@kizzmybutt

Hanahira is way easier than any other VN, whatever VN you play after it it's gonna feel very hard.

TechHater
TechHater

@CouchChiller

It's already in Japan.

@Firespawn

Ok nutjob, whatever helps you sleep better at night.

@eGremlin

Have you ever tried Windows 10? You can't even use the fucking thing in English.

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@TechHater
nutjob
windows 10 literally says its recording keystrokes and events on your calender
The question is not whether W10 is recording your data, it's how comfortable you are with them doing so.

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@TechHater
Why would I want to use Windows 10? Unlike Ubuntu, its spyware doesn't even have an off switch.

Nojokur
Nojokur

@Flameblow
Are you the guy who ranted about how good 人退 was?
No?
Either way, you're over-exaggerating and being fairly pretentious.
Try reading an actual book, or even any popular scenarioge. The difference is night and day.

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

is there a way to stop getting review cards from anki? I halted the new cards coming everyday but the cards on the green field might keep growing if I stop repping for more than a day

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@Nojokur
I've read actual books and popular novels (with moogy approved writing). Doesn't mean that the writing in nukige is intolerably bad. It's just standard Japanese.

It's like, I read and appreciate good English authors such as F Scott Fitzgerald and DFW, and I also can enjoy, heck, fan-translated nukige like Kangoku Senkan and Captive Market.

Nojokur
Nojokur

@Harmless_Venom
It's just standard Japanese.
Yeah and I wouldn't read a book written by a random college student either.

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@Spazyfool
Delete the deck? Not bother using Anki, since you know how to look up words when you find them?

Evilember
Evilember

@Spazyfool
I halted the new cards coming everyday but the cards on the green field might keep growing if I stop repping for more than a day
Please post an image of your deck settings. In particular, the following screen:

For reference, new cards are shown on the right column in blue and review cards are shown on the left column in green. It sounds as though you may be confusing new and review figures. But still, please post that image.

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@Nojokur
The focus here is your original statement that nukige have, quote
boring ass writing
Which is not true, putting aside the actually talented nukige writers, even the normal nukige writers who put forth competent settings are enjoyable to read. Even if the prose is unremarkable, that doesn't really matter, because the enjoyment is derived from character interactions and setting, which even nukige authors can pull off without much trouble. Again, you're just being pretentious.

RavySnake
RavySnake

@Evilember
@Spazyfool
Pic related is what I was referring to with the different colours and columns.

eGremlin
eGremlin

@Need_TLC
Sure. Elfen Lied is entertaining if you turn off your brain.

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@Need_TLC
because the enjoyment is derived from character interactions and setting
It isn't though, thus bad writing. The enjoyment is derived from the porn. If there wasn't porn, you wouldn't read it.

Again, you're just being pretentious.
If I was pretentious I wouldn't enjoy more comedic VNs, or accept VNs or manga in general. I just don't eat up any shit that's served to me.

FastChef
FastChef

@Evilember
Jesus Christ, automatic updates, forced restarts and real time virus scanning are some of my pet peeves that i turn off immediately in win7. If there is no option to turn them off that's an instant deal breaker.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@eGremlin
if you turn off your brain.
That is a very pretentious comment. Deriving pleasure from enjoyment happens through a synthesis of stimuli and association, meaning different people can be entertained by the same event for different reasons.

Lunatick
Lunatick

@CodeBuns
Sure, if you turn off your brain.

Spamalot
Spamalot

@FastChef
meant to reply to @Firespawn

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@FastChef
Did you mean to quote someone else?

massdebater
massdebater

@eGremlin
It's like witnessing a sunset or cuddling with a dakimakura. It's not a matter of "turning off your brain". It's just witnessing or doing something appealing to you, personally, and deriving enjoyment from it.
@Need_TLC
I skip through the sex scenes in nukige because they're boring compared to the SOL. If you're trying to claim nukige don't have enjoyable settings or characters than you're just lying or are delusional. More likely, you're thinking of some cheap and short game and thinking all nukige are like that.

I'm calling you pretentious because
attempting to impress by affecting greater importance, talent, culture, etc., than is actually possessed.
you're affecting greater culture (i.e. knowledge of nukige and VNs in general) than you actually possess. Not because you only (supposedly) enjoy high-literature or whatever.

idontknow
idontknow

@viagrandad
wow

i can't learn japanese

WebTool
WebTool

@Lunatick
You're not a very creative person are you?

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@idontknow
Do you know the name of 80 different fish in your native language?

MPmaster
MPmaster

@WebTool
I turned off my brain so I could enjoy nukige.

takes2long
takes2long

@Crazy_Nice
GOOD POINT

出来る

Techpill
Techpill

@massdebater
I skip through the sex scenes in nukige because they're boring compared to the SOL.
You're just fucking weird dude.

Wait a second
I also can enjoy, heck, fan-translated nukige like Kangoku Senkan and Captive Market.
fan translated
I doubt you are capable of judging good writing to begin with.

Emberfire
Emberfire

@idontknow
Yes you can.
https://mega.nz/#F!CMtGhCzD!2Yw8vL8jw3vei7QkGyno-w

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@Techpill
Nukige don't exist in English, more or less, so I had to use fan-translations as an example of low-quality English writing one can enjoy. I've read many nukige in Japanese and have only found them more enjoyable in the native language.

And it seems like you're devolving into personal attacks so I'm just going to stop responding.

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@lostmypassword
You could have just said 50 Shades of Gray.

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@lostmypassword
I'm just going to stop responding.
Thanks for letting us know.

viagrandad
viagrandad

@MPmaster
Intelligence and creativity are multifaceted.
Your thinking isn't.

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@viagrandad
has no standards
believes nobody should have standards
skips the porn in porn games
This is all you, buddy.

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@BlogWobbles
Nukige were more weighty in my opinion as an example, since people can relate to it, and it's relevant to the topic at hand. "I enjoy nukige in English, so it makes sense to enjoy nukige in Japanese". Everyone who's read a nukige in English would see the connection and be able to agree (if they liked a nukige they read).

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@New_Cliche
Standards are limiting.

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@Deadlyinx
@viagrandad
Just to be clear this isn't "me", not that it really matters because "me" is anonymous but as a narcissist I need to clear this up.

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@Deadlyinx
@Ignoramus
This isn't me either.

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@Deadlyinx
Standards are limiting.
There are more high quality things around than you will ever read in your lifetime. Having standards will never leave you with nothing to read, it will merely increase the average quality of what you do read.

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@Fried_Sushi
Hence reading Sheeky Forums posts I imagine

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@SomethingNew
That's a retarded comparison. Sheeky Forums posts replace social interaction, not reading stories.

;_;

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@BinaryMan
VNs are 90% SOL aka simulated social interaction.

askme
askme

@BinaryMan
Then how about having standards for social interaction?

Spamalot
Spamalot

@Lord_Tryzalot
read a nukige
fucking hell. If you're trying to write in english, write in english. "play a porn game" is the phrase you're looking for.

Soft_member
Soft_member

@Crazy_Nice
@askme
If Novels are talking to people, and moege are Sheeky Forums, then nukige are youtube comments and deviantart.

Emberfire
Emberfire

@Spamalot
VNs
play

Booteefool
Booteefool

@Emberfire
How else would you translate プレイする?

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@Fried_Sushi
What is quality. Read what enjoy instead.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@Spamalot
Nukige imo carries the nuance that it's a visual novel "porn game" as opposed to say a 2D RPG porn game like Violated Heroine.

TechHater
TechHater

@Lord_Tryzalot
What is "enjoy"

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@Booteefool
To read

hairygrape
hairygrape

@TechHater
When, after you finished a book, you feel that it wasn't a waste of time.

whereismyname
whereismyname

@TurtleCat
A visual novel is basically a shitty low-activity version of an RPG, so it makes sense.

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@whereismyname
You mean a novel, yes

eGremlin
eGremlin

@Harmless_Venom
You must be confused. The word 「ビジュアルノベル」 holds absolutely no significance in the japanese language. 和製英語, capisce?

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@eGremlin
holds absolutely no significance in the japanese language
和製英語
I don't think you know what that means

girlDog
girlDog

@haveahappyday
Yes, I'm not quite with it today. The fact that ビジュアルノベル is a katakanization of the english "visual novel" means absolutely nothing to japanese people. They see a string of kana and recognize it to mean a genre of game that involves not much gameplay.

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@girlDog
この名前は、アクアプラスのブランドであるLeafからリリースされた「リーフビジュアルノベルシリーズ」(特に『雫』『痕』『To Heart』の3作を指す場合が多い)に由来する。

Why bullshit something that can be checked so easily? The term comes from Japanese

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

みちる、ここはしっかり叱った方がいいわ!感謝の気持ちを持たせることは大事よ!

What does the second clause here mean?

whereismyname
whereismyname

@eGremlin
Is ライトノベル also just a string of kana to them?

TreeEater
TreeEater

@LuckyDusty
It's important to let people feel happy.
I suppose.

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@TreeEater
happy
grateful

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@Need_TLC
That same article also says 「ビジュアルノベル、ヴィジュアルノベル(visual novel)とは、コンピュータゲームの一ジャンルである。」

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@whereismyname
Uh, yeah. It's like in english "bon appetit" and "bon voyage" look somewhat similar but express very different concepts.

SniperWish
SniperWish

@Boy_vs_Girl
Okay? What about it.

By the way I know the term has become more popular in the English sphere than in the Japanese one, but it is still a Japanese word.

Yes, 和製英語 is Japanese.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@SniperWish
A japanese person saw the english word 'visual' and the english word 'novel' and thought that putting the two together would be perfect to describe his series of porn games that featured more pictures and words than anything else. What of it?

eGremlin
eGremlin

@Carnalpleasure
So, ノベル is a Japanese word meaning novel. And ビジュアル is a word meaning visual. But ビジュアルノベル is a string of characters.

RavySnake
RavySnake

@eGremlin
ノベル is a japanese pronunciation of an english word 'novel' that means basically nothing to the average japanese person. What are you trying to prove?

Supergrass
Supergrass

@CouchChiller
Yes, that is how loan words work.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

Is a VN with no choices a game?

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@Supergrass
Yeah. Are you even the same person who was trying 抜きゲー can't be translate into english as 'porn game'? I lost track.

Booteefool
Booteefool

@PurpleCharger
No, only arguing with the guy claiming ビジュアルノベル has no meaning to Japanese people.

w8t4u
w8t4u

@kizzmybutt
It's a kinetic novel.

idontknow
idontknow

@kizzmybutt
It uses a game engine to interpret a script that dictates which game files to display at which time, yes.

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@PurpleCharger
Not him, I did say that nukige has a nuance that I think porn game loses, but that's about it.

cum2soon
cum2soon

@RavySnake
That Japanese aren't retarded.

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@idontknow
That just makes it a computer program.

@w8t4u
It's still a visual novel.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@kizzmybutt

VNs are not games in the first place.

girlDog
girlDog

@kizzmybutt
@PurpleCharger
@Booteefool
@w8t4u
@idontknow
@Fuzzy_Logic
@cum2soon
@Gigastrength
@AwesomeTucker
どうでもいいでしょう
うるさい

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@AwesomeTucker
If they aren't games, how can you play them?

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@Fuzzy_Logic
抜き as in 抜く meaning masturbate
ゲー as in ゲーム meaning game
Where is the nuance lost?

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@AwesomeTucker
They're self-contained pieces of software that serve no purpose other than entertainment, they are computer games.

5mileys
5mileys

またこの戯言?
ゲームかゲームじゃないかどうでもいいだろ
挑発を乗ることをやめたほうがいいぞ

Techpill
Techpill

@5mileys

Flameblow
Flameblow

@kizzmybutt
You have the nukige thread here
/jp/thread/13994712#p13994712
Wherein they only discuss visual novel-type "porn games"
On the /jp/ eroge thread and the /vn/ visual novel thread, people use nukige to refer to visual novel-type "porn games" and nothing else
on h-game general on /vg/, nukige explicitly refers to VN-type porn games, while other games are just called "porn games / h-games".
on 2d h-game general (exclusively porn rpgs and porn platformers), nukige is never used.

in this English forum, nukige has taken on the nuance of "visual novel style porn game" while the phrase "porn game" refers mainly to actual games (RPGs, platformers, etc), and not visual novel style games.

It is undeniable that nukige has the nuance of a visual novel, while porn game does not. Whether these two can be considered direct translations is really irrelevant. It's just how the words are being used in English.

Nojokur
Nojokur

1時間起きに鐘の音が鳴るようになっているらしい。

What does this mean? The 起き and ambiguousness is throwing me off. 1 o' clock has occurred? Will occur? Seemed it will occur?

TreeEater
TreeEater

@Flameblow
If you like forcing such distinctions where there are none, that's your own prerogative.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@Nojokur
in one hour intervals / every one hour

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@Nojokur
Pretty sure it means "to wake up" there. The masu stem of "to happen" is 起こり.

Emberburn
Emberburn

@massdebater
yeah

If there's a route I don't want to go through in a VN then suddenly I haven't officially read/played the VN.

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@Emberburn
Are you @TreeEater
You're a pretty 面倒くさい fellow

Supergrass
Supergrass

@CouchChiller
Oh and I just realized the kanji is wrong, it's usually written 置きに

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@StrangeWizard
no, I'm the guy from hours ago. I just got back from work.

Inmate
Inmate

@StrangeWizard
I don't think @TreeEater
would bother including the "read/".
@Emberburn
Really, that "read/" is utterly useless. If you want to translate プレイする as "play", just do it.

StonedTime
StonedTime

@Inmate
Being honest here I ignore every post with プレイ in it since I'm pretty sure that's just a troll
Now that I think about it, the nukige thing was probably a troll too.
Sheesh, one really needs to take it easy here to survive

Emberburn
Emberburn

@likme
responding to an old post, but they can write any word using any writing system they like

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@StonedTime
So a person who understands how japanese works is a troll? No wonder people in this thread think learning words through flash cards is a wonderful idea.

takes2long
takes2long

@CouchChiller
I think it's more a feeling that caring too much about using language properly, when language itself is so fluid and open, is something only a troll would do.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@StonedTime
ゆっくりプレイしていってね

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@kizzmybutt
If there's no choices and no gameplay, then it's not a VN.

whereismyname
whereismyname

@takes2long
But japanese isn't fluid and open. Each character in its writing system has a specific meaning. Even English uses different words for different concepts. You can't just get away with using wrong words for things.

King_Martha
King_Martha

@whereismyname
But japanese isn't fluid and open.
Yeah okay.

Methshot
Methshot

@King_Martha
Didnt you know? Japanese speak in kanji

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

why doesn't google ime work on steam

likme
likme

@Evil_kitten
because you're a gaymer scum

RumChicken
RumChicken

@likme
What?

SniperWish
SniperWish

@Evil_kitten
try microsoft's

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@Methshot
This is why Kanji is a thing. Listening to kana only makes it 100x more difficult to understand context

Same applies to reading

RavySnake
RavySnake

@King_Martha
I am sorry to be the baron of bad news, but you seem buttered, so allow me to play doubles advocate here for a moment. For all intensive purposes I think you are wrong. In an age where false morals are a diamond dozen, true virtues are a blessing in the skies, and are more than just ice king on the cake. We often put our false morality on a petal stool like a bunch of pre-Madonnas, but you all seem to be taking something very valuable for granite.

So I ask of you to mustard up all the strength you can because it is a doggy dog world out there. Although there is some merit to what you are saying it seems like you have a huge ship on your shoulder. In your argument you seem to throw everything in but the kids Nsync, and even though you are having a feel day with this I am here to bring you back into reality.

I have a sick sense when it comes to these types of things. It is almost spooky, because I cannot turn a blonde eye to these glaring flaws in your rhetoric. I have zero taller ants when it comes to people spouting out hate in the name of moral righteousness. You just need to remember what comes around is all around, and when supply and command fails you will be the first to go.

Make my words, when you get down to brass stacks it doesn't take rocket appliances to get two birds stoned at once. It's clear who makes the pants in this relationship, and sometimes you just have to swallow your prize and accept the fax, instead of making a half-harded effort. You might have to come to this conclusion through denial and error but I swear on my mother's mating name that when you put the petal to the medal you will pass with flying carpets like it's a peach of cake.

likme
likme

@RavySnake
Japanese gets a lot of fluidity that kanji that read the same but have different meanings
聖少女 -> 聖娼女 -> 性少女・性娼女
聖騎士 -> 性騎士
that kind of thing.

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@Evilember
if you haven't already bought it, you could buy it from a store with cracked DRM, like bookwalker

http://bookwalker.jp/series/997/

Evilember
Evilember

@likme
Except context would make it perfectly clear which one you mean, or else the entire meaning of the sentence is lost. That's not fluidity, that's obscurity.

w8t4u
w8t4u

never seen a japanese with down's syndrome

TechHater
TechHater

@w8t4u
Of course not; they euthanize straight after diagnosis.

happy_sad
happy_sad

@TechHater
or films/media criticizing this (assuming it's true)

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

子どもたちは強制にしてるし、私と知紗はそれに合わせているけど、あとは自由にやることを決めて大丈夫よ。

I've read all of Taekim, DoBJG, and a good portion of DoIGJ and have absolutely no idea what the fuck the first two clauses are talking about.

Nojokur
Nojokur

@w8t4u
Have you ever noticed how retards look like Asians?

idontknow
idontknow

@Nojokur
They look white to me.

TreeEater
TreeEater

@happy_sad
Censorship. You aren't allowed to show a vagina or two people riding on the same bike, I don't think people would get away with spilling the beans about ethnic cleansing.

Booteefool
Booteefool

no h-code for 大図書館 on the wiki

I guess that I'm looking to have a career in computers, anyways...

Though what I really, really want is to practice with Japanese. Like, now. Preferably without taking five minutes each time I run across an unfamiliar word to look it up (possibly having to look up the kanji by radical), check if it's in my anki deck, and manually add it if its not.

happy_sad
happy_sad

@idontknow
Give him a bit of tan and he'll look like your average Jap.

cum2soon
cum2soon

What textbooks are good for self-studying, /djt/? I want to make sure I don't miss anything important regarding grammar while learning with my current resources.

TreeEater
TreeEater

@Boy_vs_Girl
Had a look at that after making the purchase. What does bookwalker use to contain their books? According to
http://www.jcafe24.net/index.php?topic=23795.0
Someone has had problems with ripping bookwalker content. These sites seem to be upgrading their DRM in response to people ripping stuff. The few different readers I've used so far all block the use of print screen and the ripping tools people have made no longer work.

Anyway I'll have a look at it later and try one out. If that works I'll take requests.

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@Evilember
Yes, one needs intelligent to identify these things.

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@cum2soon
read the guide

StonedTime
StonedTime

@idontknow
Dude, retards were always called mongols because they really looked like mongols

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@TreeEater
that's quite a mental image

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@cum2soon
How about you read the guide? Fuck you

idontknow
idontknow

@happy_sad
No I don't think so. You might just be a racist.

TreeEater
TreeEater

@TreeEater
They use some custom solution, but the software to remove it is somewhere in the archive

I've used it a few weeks ago, so it should work unless they've changed something recently. Just get some free book to try it first.

I hope you aren't afraid of using the command line

Supergrass
Supergrass

@Booteefool
I'm reading Daitoshokan right now, it's really really good, though I wouldn't recommend it as a first VN so much of it depends on the exceptionally well-written dialogue, and a newbie would be too busy trying to piece it together than actually read and enjoy it. Trust me: Read 2-3 other VNs first.

With that said, it hooks up to chiitrans lite no problem, you don't need an H-Code.
check if it's in my anki deck, and manually add it if its not.
If you use rikai-sama autoimport, adding cards takes only a couple seconds, and if the word already exists it'll notify you.

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@TreeEater
Can you hook me up with a link or something I can use to follow? Ask long as there are steps explained I can fuck around with most things on a computer.

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@idontknow
You might just be blind, mate.

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

出撃

TechHater
TechHater

@idontknow
Are you trying to prove him right? Look at the girl on the right. Jesus Christ.

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@haveahappyday
https://archive.org/a/thread/120635485/#120669483

this and then follow the linked posts for the download links

JunkTop
JunkTop

@Boy_vs_Girl
wow rude
But I admit that is my fault for not looking at the guide good enough.

Spamalot
Spamalot

@TechHater
Prove him right about what? Neither of them look Asian in the slightest unless you're a white supremacist or have some other kind of similar cognitive defect. They have large caucasian noses, blonde hair, and blue eyes that aren't slanted.

Also stop samefagging. It's pathetic.

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@lostmypassword
I just found this
https://archive.org/a/thread/120635485/#120636640
BookRunnerWpf

But I'll take a look at your link. Thanks again.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@Spamalot
Look at him, a clear Jap.

Supergrass
Supergrass

@Stark_Naked
That's an Asian kid. This is a white one. Do you actually think white people can't be retarded or something?

It's odd that you're denying this because you seem to be a live example.

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@Supergrass
She looks like a Jap with a big nose. Those people do exist, you know.

Soft_member
Soft_member

@LuckyDusty
No she doesn't. Are you sure you're not the one with the down syndrome?

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@Supergrass

I want a good, relaxing moege.

Flyable Heart is rage-inducing.

With that said, it hooks up to chiitrans lite no problem, you don't need an H-Code.

Yeah, it looks like it sees a location that agth doesn't. Thanks.

If you use rikai-sama autoimport, adding cards takes only a couple seconds, and if the word already exists it'll notify you.

Which is part of why I would like to use a text hooker.

Soft_member
Soft_member

@Soft_member
Just look at those eyes, mate. They're full of Yamato spirit.

Bidwell
Bidwell

@Spamalot
Also stop samefagging. It's pathetic.
hurr hurr hurr if i get 2 replies and they're both things i don't like it's a samefag

Methshot
Methshot

@Soft_member
No they're not. She has double eyelids, retard.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@Burnblaze
Yeah, I just think, you can play Flyable Heart-kind of games without really ruining it because there's nothing really there in the first place, but it's very possible to ruin Daitoshokan. However, compelling content and all that, good luck.

Flameblow
Flameblow

@Methshot
Just like this other Japanese person.

massdebater
massdebater

@Flameblow
Who looks nothing like a retard.

And I never said no Asians have double eyelids. I said that they're not full of "yamato spirit" if you're talking about stereotypical. Your entire point is some contrived logically flawed way of trying to associate retardation with Japanese people.

Ironically the only thing you've proven to us is that you're retarded.

DeathDog
DeathDog

DJT, where people argue about eyelids

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@cum2soon
None of them

Literally, none of them

They're universally terrible

happy_sad
happy_sad

@massdebater
You just can't recognise retardation in a Japanese face because they all look that way.

massdebater
massdebater

Japanese have a higher incidence of double eyelid than many other nearby east asians because of ainu mixing.

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

this kid does not look asian
t. retard

TechHater
TechHater

@happy_sad
@PackManBrainlure
No but I can recognize it in your redneck family. Is that how you turned out this stupid? Honest question.

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@DeathDog
It's a special kind of special.

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@massdebater
They mostly just create them theirselves by pushing the skin behind the eyeball. If you look it up on youtube there are a ton of tutorials in Japanese about how to do it.

TechHater
TechHater

@TechHater
Okay, mate. Down's kids still look Asian.

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@TechHater
im a white supremacist who cherrypicks

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@New_Cliche
i'm blinded by my pink liberal glasses through which i observe the world
K, pal.

Booteefool
Booteefool

@New_Cliche
Now tell me this does not look like an asian.

retards called mongols since forever because surprise, they looked like them
but nuh uh uh they dont

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@StrangeWizard
Implying anyone who isn't a racist neckbeard is a liberal
My IQ is subterranean. Watch me demonstrate!

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@Gigastrength
hurr hurr hurr redneck redneck redneck
I don't even know those states. My grandfather fought against you bastards. Jew puppets.

Soft_member
Soft_member

@GoogleCat
DE JEWZ lol!

TreeEater
TreeEater

@Gigastrength
I wonder which of those states also have the most black people.

Snarelure
Snarelure

@Soft_member
Gee, I've seen you using that image a hundred times. And it only started recently too, how long have you been frequenting the DJT?

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

reminder that there's no proof that the nazis gassed 6 million jews

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