Animation & Popularity

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

Is he right? Do anime fans only care about the voices and story and are fooled by pans and tricks? Is a popular manga enough? Is animation unimportant for a succesful anime as long as it looks flashy?

It certainly seems like he is with the success of shows like Monogatari.

Does anybody watch anime for the quality of the animation?

All urls found in this thread:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROqlhMEWA70
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm26669906
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm26747130
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm26911672
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm25977227
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSqkIdfa3qY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPZxf3Oj8CQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYEuohsuFBo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwMjauXbDrU
https://twitter.com/Anonymemoose/status/634684268053143552
Soft_member
Soft_member

@Carnalpleasure
Does anybody watch anime for the quality of the animation?
If I wanted to watch good animation, I'd watch western cartoons.

viagrandad
viagrandad

voices
Maybe
story
No, cute waifus

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@Soft_member
Why do you think you would see that there and not in anime?

farquit
farquit

@Soft_member
Eh, this was true in the 90s. Not anymore. Now it's all 3DCGI mocap shit.

Bidwell
Bidwell

@viagrandad
Isn't that just a specific part of the story?

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

ask that yourself

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@Carnalpleasure
It helps that it's actually animated to begin with. No flapping mouths and still frames, not to mention there's no need to rely on camera gimmicks that depicts a shot from some fancy angle to hide the lack of animation.

cum2soon
cum2soon

Nichijou, flcl, and the currently airing non non byori all need the visuals to make them what they are. Somthing would be missing (I feel like). Elswise, there are good shows that don't have impressive visuals as well. It's a show by show basis imo

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@farquit
Their CGI is very good though.

Booteefool
Booteefool

@Carnalpleasure
Isn't he just saying popular things are popular? No shit. Also what does he mean when he's talking about pans and tricks? The Monogatari series for example looks great because of it's stellar directing and cool imagery, even in scenes with little movement. I would hardly consider that to be a trick.

farquit
farquit

@Evil_kitten
There is plenty of good animation going on in anime. Much more than in the west.

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

Well yeah. Story is the only reason to watch or read anything. If you don't care about what's going on then there's no point.

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@Booteefool
Pans and tricks is essentially talking about using a large still image and moving a camera along it to make it look somewhat like it is moving, like those stitched together images you get that are more than one screen. Tricks is probably talking about doing things like having a static image but manipulating it in ways like flashing colours or wierd angles to keep it visually interesting. It is seen as a "trick" by being a cheap way to make the audience perceive a static image that would otherwise be boring to be intersting without putting the effort and money in that actual animation would require.

Techpill
Techpill

@ZeroReborn
story is the only reason to watch animation
What? Then why watch animation at all?

eGremlin
eGremlin

@Nude_Bikergirl
Oh, I see. Is that necessarily a bad thing though if the end result (visually interesting) is the same?

JunkTop
JunkTop

I have yet to see anyone who doesn't complain about still frames.

takes2long
takes2long

@farquit
Such as? Most of the so-called good animation in anime consists of shaky-cam action with flashy effects. It's a joke.

idontknow
idontknow

Can't speak for everyone but I'll always value story and characters over animation
that being said, I sure as fuck don't mind some eye candy

Post good animation
Sorry I don't have any

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@ZeroReborn
In my opinion, not necessarily when it comes to animation. For example, I didn't think Redline and Thief and the Cobbler (not animu though) had anything special going on on terms of plot but both have some really great visuals that makes watching them more than worthy
But still, I think there's indeed anime that make up for poor animation quality with other stuff

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@takes2long
You could probably tell me yourself about the good animation going on in Japan if this was a discussion worth having.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@idontknow
Just watch any KyoAni show

girlDog
girlDog

I always believed they came for the quality of the animation
When has this ever been the case for anything other than fight scenes?

takes2long
takes2long

Do anime fans only care about the voices and story?
Nowadays my main reason to watch TV Anime is the voice acting/seiyuu.
The 13/26 episodes format is inherently flawed for adaptations, and the tight production schedules always leave room for a lot of quality issues. Anime originals have a bit more flexibility on that regard but the issues are still there.

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@girlDog
OP/EDs comes to mind

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@eGremlin
Not nessecarily no. It is just a difference in philopsophies really about how anime should be made. There are places like SHAFT and works by people like Dezaki who wanted to make anime cheaply and still keep it interesting so found novel ways to do so. Then there are anime stemming from those Toei did in the 50s and 60s going on to Ghibli that try earnestly to animate things well and be interesting without "tricks". I think both can be great when done well.

Booteefool
Booteefool

Animation quality is unimportant for most scenes and there is a wide range of good to bad where it doesn't bother most people. Actually good animation is just a bonus.

hairygrape
hairygrape

@girlDog
fight scenes
People just don't appreciate great chracter acting do they? Unless it is all flash most people don't even notice it is animation.

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@Soft_member
You mean, mainly, Disney.

DeathDog
DeathDog

@Carnalpleasure
@massdebater

Whats this from?

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@Soft_member
Which currently airing cartoons have good animation?

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@Carnalpleasure
Why should they? It's great when it's well animated, but it can just means the series had a higher budget. If you watch based on the story you can't go wrong, and the worse animation won't matter much unless you're a total enthusiast.

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@ZeroReborn
Steven Universe

massdebater
massdebater

@hairygrape
People just don't appreciate great chracter acting do they?
We do, it's called voice acting.

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@massdebater
americans never mastered 2d animation

I'm no expert but I'm calling bullshit on that one.

Techpill
Techpill

@DeathDog
OP image is from Yasuo Otsuko - Joy in Motion it can be found in the usual place for older anime.

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@hairygrape
It does seem to be something that people take for granted.

Spamalot
Spamalot

@massdebater
Are you pretending to be retarded? Do you not realize how stupid it would sound if your favourite seiyuu you masturbate over was makign a pained voice and crying with an expressionless face?

happy_sad
happy_sad

@massdebater
The first fucking weaboo of all time.

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@massdebater
I'm curious where this is from?

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@Carnalpleasure
Well-animated shows are rare, but I enjoy any bits of good animation found in anime. Of course, I prefer a show to display competence in all aspects as opposed to just animation, but I enjoy a show on the merit of its animation alone provided it isn't utterly boring.

eGremlin
eGremlin

@Gigastrength
Those are memesubs anyway.

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@GoogleCat
now thats some good rotoscoping, you barely notice its drawn over a bunch of actors.
unlike other series which shall remain unmentioned

TreeEater
TreeEater

@BinaryMan
I hope you're not baiting, that's rotoscoped. The animator in charge of that scene took 10 weeks to finish his work.

Snarelure
Snarelure

@Gigastrength
Richard Williams, The Animators Survival Kit
Those subs are "Anime was a mistake" tier though

Skullbone
Skullbone

@BinaryMan
rotoscoping
That is some weak bait. The man who drew that scene worked on it for 10 weeks and ended up hospitalized.

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@Spamalot
Are you pretending to be retarded or do you not realize you are making a completely different claim? Now it's not about the relevance of animation, but about the contradicting behaviour of what you are hearing and what's on screen.

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@BinaryMan
rotoscoping
GITS
nigga what

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@Dreamworx
I'm pointing out the importance of character acting. The voice of a seiyuu would always sound ridiculous and out of place without it, happy seiyuu when character has a straight face?

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

seiyuus are well paid, sure, but they always deliver
the same doesn't happen in other areas

eGremlin
eGremlin

@BinaryMan
Again, you are just pointing out contracting sound and visual. That is bad for a completely different reason than what you are claiming. Animation not as needed doesn't mean to go full retard on the visuals.

Can you feel the character if you only listen to the sound without the visual? That's character acting.

Evilember
Evilember

@massdebater
Even if these are troll subs, they made me realize that while we have tons upon hundreds of webm threads of absolutely stunning eastern animation, I've almost never seen a single webm thread on /co/.
In fact I don't remember any piece of western animation that has really stuck with me throughout the years (Except The Theif and the Cobbler); and yes, I have seen the Disney movies.

Even if a large portion is crap, the good bits of anime shine so hard it's blinding.

I also realize that I don't have any of said "Good animation" webms saved so just have this clip from Shirobako as consolation.

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@eGremlin
Can you feel the character if you only listen to the sound without the visual? That's character acting.
I cannot agree more. That's what good character animation is all about. The old Disney and Warner animators were masters at animating characters.

farquit
farquit

@eGremlin
I don't think you understand the meaning of character acting with regard to animation. No it isn't bad for a completely different reason than what I am claiming. Character acting is what makes you convinced that the voice of the seiyuu belongs to that drawing on screen and that the drawing on screen is really doing things in its environment.

cum2soon
cum2soon

@lostmypassword
It's true. Disney old productions were rotoscoped and the newer ones are shit animation wise.

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@Evilember
/co/ has the occasional webm thread, but most of the content is pretty unremarkable. Have you checked out Ernest and Celestine? It's a 2D animated French film, apparently it's pretty good.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

Animation is an art

Anime is an art that revolves around the direction of still shot pans and animation in unison, tied with sound direction, writing and theatrics in importance

For instance, Akagame no Shirayukihime has some pretty consistent animation this season, but because of that it's also less impressive than some of the stuff you can see in other shows

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@Carnalpleasure
Voices and story have just as much merit as actual animation in anime, and it's not like old anime was stellar in animation either

askme
askme

@cum2soon
Disney used live-action reference more often than rotoscoping and abandoned the latter quite quickly as the results were often unappealing.

newer ones are shit animation wise.
Tarzan's animation was fantastic.

Illusionz
Illusionz

@TalkBomber
From the creators of The Triplets of Belleville and The Secret of the Kells

How the fuck did I not know about this? Thanks m8!

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

I couldn't care less about who voices the characters in my chinese cartoons as long as they do a good job. Doesn't matter if it's a famous seiyuu or some small-time name.

Methnerd
Methnerd

@farquit
No it isn't bad for a completely different reason than what I am claiming.
It is. For example, rather than what you said
The voice of a seiyuu would always sound ridiculous and out of place without it, happy seiyuu when character has a straight face?

To bring out your point it should have been
The voice of a seiyuu would always sound ridiculous and out of place without it, happy seiyuu when character has a happy face?

RumChicken
RumChicken

@askme
As far as I know, the only the only one where they used rotoscoping as straight up drawing over the source was Snow White, other than that they always did live action reference
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROqlhMEWA70

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

Yes, no, sort of. Yes, the mass audience probably doesn't watch for the animation. But in that vein, they don't watch for the subtleties of writing or whatever either. Usually the motivation is much more superficial. People watch because they liked the manga. Or a design is cute. Or whatever.

But this applies for most things. Not just anime. Did women flock to the Notebook because of superior drama, or Ryan Gosling? Why did people watch Transformers? Was it the narrative, the cinematography, or the tits and robots?

However, what you must realize is that things like animation, cinematography, or whatever aren't supposed to stick out. They act without the audience being aware of their impact. So people rarely watch shows for animation or movies for cinematography, but it would be retarded to say that those things don't affect enjoyment.

And just like film, there will always be a small contingent that can recognize those features and as a result, appreciate it all the more. That's just fine.

@askme
unappealing
nigga did you even watch heavy metal? '
It was okay

@PurpleCharger
Voices maybe, story is always worthless no matter what medium it is. Books, movies, anime, whatever. Story is almost never relevant.

@idontknow
I got u fam

@Garbage Can Lid
@Soft_member
western cartoons
SU
good animation
pfft

4 minute flash shit is good? Too bad they canceled motorcity, that shit had some sakuga.

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@Evilember
You could try watching independent western animators. Yuri Norstein, Alexander Petrov, Frederic Back, Norman McLaren, Ryan Larkin, Caroline Leaf, Jan Svankmajer, Jiri Trnka, Brothers Quay, Michael Dudok de Wit. Those kinds of animators.

Here have a western animation webm.

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@Carnalpleasure

I don't know I've come to similar conclusions of late and I'm a hell of a lot less knowledgable about this stuff than he is. Mass production is the word that keeps coming to mind of late when you have like 40 new shows debuting in an average season which just seem to exist to act as commercials for the source material and keep people working as opposed to being made with any sort of particular artistic insight or license. Anime is even more commercial at this point than it's ever been really.

Also when I see people just shitting on any show that tries to have any sort of story or character development and calling it "forced drama" or "ass pulls" or at the very least "bad writing" if you're fucking lucky. Meanwhile what I see all the time now is people praising any show that has some sort of elaborate fanservice scene of little girls making out or whatever the fanservice flavor of the month is.

So yes he's pretty much right on the money. Every comment really besides the one about people coming for the voices and the story. I'm not even convinced people care about that much, just shows tits and ass and you're fucking golden with otaku, story is irrelevant really. Really I don't know how you could look at your average dime a dozen bishoujo anime and not come to at the very least a similar conclusion if you have even a rational cell functioning in your brain and aren't just looking to be contrarian somehow.

King_Martha
King_Martha

@Carnalpleasure
Monogatari is a good series. Shaft is a goos dtudio.

SniperWish
SniperWish

@Methnerd
You seem to be completely missing my point here. I don't know if you are doing it on purpose or just retarded? The character acting is important because if it isn't done right the voice would sound ridiculous and you would never be convinced by the character. This isn't an insult to the work of the seiyuu or whatever you seem to think it is, they work together. However no matter how good the voice of the seiyuu is it will never feel right as the character on the screen if the animation for the character acting is off.

eGremlin
eGremlin

@Fuzzy_Logic
Alexander Petrov
This is oil paints right? Animated? Holy fuck man.

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@Fuzzy_Logic
Yuri Nohrsteyn
The Overcoat THIRTY YEARS STOP MOTION CUT OUTS

massdebater
massdebater

@eGremlin
He paints on glass for each frame I think.

likme
likme

@farquit

I don't know man I'd swear your average series from before the turn of the decade looks better than most of what we're getting. It's like the recession somehow wiped out the animation industries ability to commit large resources and get the same kind of animation out of your average 2 cour series that it had before. Then again I kind of feel that animation in Japan peaked in the very early 90's right before the first economic bubble in Japan burst so it's all relative.

Flameblow
Flameblow

@Fuzzy_Logic
You can't judge independent stuff like this on the same level of mainstream media.
Fucking amazing.

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@Fuzzy_Logic
That looks nice.

hairygrape
hairygrape

@Carnalpleasure
Do anime fans only care about the voices and story and are fooled by pans and tricks?

Anime fans care about stuff that's currently perceived as most "anime", which is moeshit, highschool drama bullshit and stupid fantasy nonsense peppered with boatloads of fap material and waifus. I only like the last thing.

Anno's right when he says that there's little diversity today because creators and the target audience only care about the same pre-established things and trends.

Not enough people who create anime nowadays are really interested in other mediums or topics. Umaru for example would be a vastly different thing if they cared.

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@cum2soon
Nichijou
Sold horribly.
FLCL
15 years old, from a different era
non non byori
Mouth flaps, and (incredibly well detailed) panning backgrounds.

Supergrass
Supergrass

@Flameblow
I really need to make some for Frederic Back's The Man Who Planted Trees, that film was beautiful too. Miyazaki and Takahata both cite it as influential in their development. I think Takahata said he actually was never going to direct animation until he saw Paul Grimault's The King and the Mockingbird also.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@SniperWish
The character acting is important because if it isn't done right the voice would sound ridiculous and you would never be convinced by the character.
You still haven't shown how it's the case other than throwing examples where the visual is contradicting with the sound. You don't feel the character being happy because he's moving, you feel the character being happy because he's making a happy expression. Unless you are going to tell me something ridiculous like you can't feel the emotions of whatever the manga you are reading because the characters aren't moving, or that you can't understand whatever pieces of art from a gallery because they have no motion, animation isn't all that important compare to sound when it comes to acting.

happy_sad
happy_sad

This is a good season for voice acting.
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm26669906
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm26747130
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm26911672
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm25977227

Illusionz
Illusionz

@ZeroReborn
Voices maybe, story is always worthless no matter what medium it is. Books, movies, anime, whatever. Story is almost never relevant.

unless you are refering to how mass audiences sometimes watch works because of an interest to a particular aspect or theme of the movie/show rather than the actual story, then fine. otherwise this is one of the most tastelessly retarded things i've read all day.

you can't seriously tell me that you have 0 interest for the plot of whatever you watch/read and as long as it has cute girls or some japanese people with squeaky voices you're fine. besides the story is tied with pretty much all other aspects of the show, so i really don't get how it's irrelevant outside of cases where it is either inexistent or intentionally made unimportant.

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@Carnalpleasure
You just have to look at Sheeky Forums. Occasionally we have one animator thread (per week). There is always at least one seiyuu thread. And we are always flooded with waifu threads and story progress/speculation threads.

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@happy_sad
login with facebook/twitter/obscuresocialnetwork
I will never give in

Flameblow
Flameblow

@Illusionz
story and plot aren't the same thing.
What I mean is, no one gives a shit about story if not for execution. This isn't just animation, or acting, but also how it's written.
"To be or not to be" boils down to "should I kill myself?", but one sounds more impressive.

hairygrape
hairygrape

@Garbage Can Lid
I was expecting this bait.

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@Stark_Naked
You still haven't shown how it's the case other than throwing examples where the visual is contradicting with the sound.
Thats because you were talking about seiyuu specifically. It is pretty obvious that if a character is walking stupidly you will not believe in the character at all or that they are interacting with things in the environment that is there. That isn't even contradicting anything.
You don't feel the character being happy because he's moving
You positively can get a much deeper understanding of the kind of feeling with character animation as oppossed to a plain image yes. There is no way you would ever be able to get the same depth of information or convey the same emotion as this webm for example with either sound or a still. They all work in concert and if one of them is off they all will be and the character won't come of as feeling proper and really the character. If you animate some girl who is supposed to be timid stomping around like a man it would be silly. You wouldn't understand her character.

WebTool
WebTool

@SomethingNew
No idea what you are talking about. You only need your mail to make an account.

Supergrass
Supergrass

@WebTool
still shouldn't be necessary to just watch stuff and angers me to this day

RavySnake
RavySnake

@hairygrape

Pretty accurate and observable. At absolute best the anime fanbase hasn't done anything of late to convince me otherwise in the slightest and at least this season has done everything it possibly can to convince me that it's precisely the case. You just kind of have to look at the stuff that gets talked up and submitted by the community as objective masterpieces and the kind of stuff that gets summarily shit on out of hand and without question to see it's pretty much the case and it can only be either or as well. Either complete shit (virtually anything that isn't little girls making out or some sort of cute girls doing cute things show) or an unobjectionable "masterpiece" (I don't know...anything Fate/Stay Night or Monogatari related or really whatever Aniplex or Pony Canyon happens to be running on a Thursday or Saturday)

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

I don't get the voice actor hype. People talk about voice actors like it's the idol industry or something. I mean, some of it is, I suppose.

Outside of watching something and thinking "hey I know that voice" and looking them up to see what you recognise them from, I don't see what more there is to pay attention to. How does anyone remember all their names? I don't think I know more than ten off the top of my head. I don't care what Miyuki Sawashiro's favorite soap is, or what she ate for breakfast today, or anything like that. All I care about is that she puts in a decent performance

FastChef
FastChef

@Carnalpleasure
It's a visual medium. I don't see how watching because of quality animations and seeing characters come to "life", are mutualy exclusive.

farquit
farquit

@RavySnake
Good anime 2015 so far

TV
Hibike! Euphonium
Yuri Kuma Arashi

Film/OVA
LWA 2
Taifuu no Noruda

Shorts
Bubu & Bubulina
Sex and Violence with Machspeed
I can Friday by Day!
Obake no Dokuro
Kanon
Hammerhead

5mileys
5mileys

@Harmless_Venom
This

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@farquit
Yuri Kuma Arashi
No.

Otherwise a decent list.

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@farquit
TV
Hibike! Euphonium
Yuri Kuma Arashi

All wrong.

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@Illusionz

When a substantial portion of older anime creators and writers have gone on record as saying they figure anime viewers don't really give a shit about story, themes and the meaning behind them and how it comes together or anything like that to the point where they don't even figure it's worth bothering anymore I think there might be a case for it being if not a hard reality at least a plausible one. I really haven't seen any sort of evidence for it in a long ass time at least. What generally matters is if you're adapting a show from a source that is already proven and popular with a certain audience or is written by somebody that is also proven and that the audience finds the characters of the opposite sex from themselves attractive enough. That's the bottom fucking line really. It's the byproduct of like 95% of late night anime being targeted at something like less than 1% of the population that even watches television and who are of a particular obsessive persuasion because the productions committees have decided anything else still remains too much of a risk.

Methnerd
Methnerd

@Raving_Cute
It was certainly Ikuhara's weakest to date, but I still think it is leagues ahead of the majority of TV anime.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@farquit
TV
Hibike! Euphonium
Yuri Kuma Arashi

All right.

Lunatick
Lunatick

@Carnalpleasure
He is partially right.

This industry is getting cheaper and cheaper, but that happens with everything, specially when we are living through an economical crisis.

It's not only cutting budget for the animation itself, they are trying to maximize how much money they can obtain from what they produce:

Appeal the otaku (fanservice, harem, lewd shit and things like that are much more present nowadays, otaku are the ones that spend a lot of money in mechandise and BD/DVD)
Anime is shifting from a 24 episodes per season model to a 12 episodes per season model (you invest less money, you lose less money if things don't go right, you can produce a bigger number of products that in total appeal to a bigger audience)
There almost no original material being produced directly in animated format, everything is based on LN, VN, videogames, etc (you know that there is an existent market already, you take a lesser risk)

You only need to check those pics with "all the new series for this season" that always pop up here and you will realize what i'm talking about.

I don't fool myself, i know most anime is cheap, but there are exceptions every season, like Fate Kaleid right now, and yes, i will at least give those series a try, only because they look nicer.

Don't lose hope guys, it will get better, eventually.
It always does.

massdebater
massdebater

@Methnerd
Ikuhara
good

Amazing meme.

hairygrape
hairygrape

@farquit

Yeah no interest in doing the objectivist thing, but I did at least enjoy most of the shorts you listed. TV shows I'm not so sure about. LWA is like the biggest hipster anime of the last few years so while I enjoyed the first OVA I'm not sure if I can take that objectivity statement seriously. Hibike Euphonium had it's moments later on in the show but IMO was nothing special. Yuri Kuma Arashi was just pretentious drivel from a director that has only really ever promoted that sort of thing throughout his entire career. I don't even remember a lot of people I know that absolutely rave about Utena agreeing that it was anywhere his best work either.

I'd say anime from 2015 that I enjoyed, but I know better than to bother with that here and realistically you should too, again unless you just plan on doing the whole objectivist thing in which case enjoy the utter pointlessness of having everything summarily disagree with you just because they can.

TechHater
TechHater

@Lunatick
but there are exceptions every season, like Fate Kaleid right now
It looks like shit mate.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@Gigastrength
Thats because you were talking about seiyuu specifically. It is pretty obvious that if a character is walking stupidly you will not believe in the character at all or that they are interacting with things in the environment that is there.
What are you even talking about?

There is no way you would ever be able to get the same depth of information or convey the same emotion as this webm for example with either sound or a still
You can portray the same without the excess amount of frames. The depth you are claiming is just style, not actual substance which is how her expressions and positions are drawn.

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@ZeroReborn
Adventure Time

TreeEater
TreeEater

@AwesomeTucker
What are you even talking about?
I give up with you.

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@hairygrape
I'd say anime from 2015 that I enjoyed, but I know better than to bother with that here and realistically you should too
I don't want Sheeky Forums to shit on my tastes!

Be honest, you're just scared of being shit on.

SniperWish
SniperWish

@TechHater
The animation quality is good, i don't know why you say that.

It has better and worse moments, of course, but if you watch it all and compare it to something like, i don't know, Souma, you will see it looks better.

girlDog
girlDog

@SniperWish
Souma's animation is shit, and so is Prisma Illya's.

farquit
farquit

@SniperWish
And i must add that Souma is even an example of shit-quality animation.
It's decent.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@girlDog
Ok, give me an example of what you consider good animation quality.

DeathDog
DeathDog

@hairygrape
LWA is like the biggest hipster anime of the last few years
I don't really know what you mean by that. It is really popular?
unless you just plan on
I just like seeing peoples reactions.

Inmate
Inmate

@hairygrape
LWA is like the biggest hipster anime of the last few years

FastChef
FastChef

@Fuzzy_Logic
tfw you will never be a part of the hey day of Canadian Animation.

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@TurtleCat
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSqkIdfa3qY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPZxf3Oj8CQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYEuohsuFBo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwMjauXbDrU

Stuff like this.

Booteefool
Booteefool

@TurtleCat
Gundoh Musashi

massdebater
massdebater

@DeathDog
It means he doesn't like LWA.

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@Lunatick

Don't forget about event tickets, extras up the ass for non-discounted Blu-Rays on Amazon and the rush to exploit the music anime market because if you can pair event tickets for concerts with those discs it potentially quadruple your sales margin for that volume. The iDOLM@STER Movie packaged weighed like 7.5 pounds for crying out loud. In any case one of the biggest problems with anime nowadays is the stupid Blu-Ray market and shows being designed around how they are going to market and design the packaging to appeal to obsessive collectors as opposed to just making sure the show is anything remarkable in and of itself first and will hold together as a storyline. People will of course defend this model since it kind of works still but I don't see how that's making the shows any better.

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@Nude_Bikergirl
He probably thinks animation quality means if the character art is of consistent quality, in a style he likes and the backgrounds are detailed. A lot of people who know nothing about animation make that mistake.

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@massdebater

I already said I liked the first OVA. That still doesn't mean I can't clearly see it's a big hipster show. People just say they like LWA and it's the greatest thing ever to fit in now, or at least they did with the first one. You can still like something and think that people can act really stupid about it in a way unrelated to your feelings for it. I feel that way about Fate/Stay Night these days. Not everything has to be a zero sum game and all one way or the other up and down the board when it comes to how you feel about something, I wish people got that more but hey internet right

5mileys
5mileys

@PackManBrainlure
I don't think you know what hipster means. It is pretty much the complete opposite of how you are using it. Hipsters like things nobody else knows about because of that. They don't like things that are hugely popular because other people do unless they are liking them ironically.

SniperGod
SniperGod

@PackManBrainlure
it's a big hipster show.
People just say they like LWA and it's the greatest thing ever to fit in now
wat

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@PackManBrainlure
I feel that way about Fate/Stay Night
That has to be the first time I have seen F/SN called hipster.

cum2soon
cum2soon

@DeathDog

What's the point of seeing peoples reactions when you can pretty much predict exactly how it's going to go, particularly on Sheeky Forums. Unless it's one of the precious few shows that Sheeky Forums seems to have some sort of gentlemans agreement not to crap on like Monogatari series your pretty much going to have smirking drooling idiots looking to be clever by saying your favorite shows are shit. No reason, just shit because you like them and it's fucking Sheeky Forums. This is why it's never a good idea to post the shows you like. Look around you, what do you see the general and first reaction to pretty much any show anybody has namedropped in this thread alone and how much does the person reacting to the show go out of their way to support things.

There you go, unless you're a big fan of shitposting it's really not worth it to get them anything extra to get them going. Granted anything can be shitposted, but saying you like something makes for an easy target

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@cum2soon
You need to stop taking Sheeky Forums so seriously.

So what if someone calls your favourite anime shit?

Illusionz
Illusionz

@Fuzzy_Logic

I didn't call F/SN hipster. You're not reading and following the flow of conversation and ideas properly. I said

You can still like something and think that people can act really stupid about it in a way unrelated to your feelings for it. I feel that way about Fate/Stay Night these days.

Try reading and thinking and then posting your reply.

Supergrass
Supergrass

@Nude_Bikergirl
Yes, these are examples of good animation, even better than what i mentioned.
But a SOL anime does not need this level, specially in cases like Kaleid, where they need to save expenses to spend more money on the important scenes (Kaleid fighting scenes had very good quality).

@New_Cliche
No, i know what you two are talking about, i was just using an example from this season.

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@Fuzzy_Logic

Where did I say I took Sheeky Forums seriously, I'm just describing how it is. I don't see anyone disagreeing with me either yet. I don't give a solitary fuck what some trollbaiting shitposter on Sheeky Forums claims to think about a show I like cause they think it's going to get a rise out of me, but I'm still not going to feed them all the same.

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@Burnblaze
Yeah, i forgot about that, that's a specially bad part of this industry nowadays.

It's exactly the same shit than DLC for videogames.

Books with missing chapters when?

MPmaster
MPmaster

@Supergrass
But a SOL anime does not need this level
Good character acting is also valuable, and Prisma Illya's SOL scenes could benefit from more lively and expressive animation. Fair enough if they want to save resources for the fights, but as it stands the show's animation is crap.

Kaleid fighting scenes had very good quality
It had some decent scenes, but they weren't great.

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@Supergrass
SOL anime does not need this level,
Yama no Susume would like a word with you.

SniperWish
SniperWish

@Carnalpleasure
I want to say that I agree that the quality of animation is key, but SZS is one of my favorite series, and there's little difference between its anime and manga, aside from voices and color

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@Sharpcharm
I find it amusing to see such irrational reactions, and some people might even end up watching some of it and finding something they like there and eventually acquiring some good taste. Its win-win.

farquit
farquit

@farquit
Have you seen Taifuu no Noruda? Can't find it anywhere.

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@Carnalpleasure
He's only half-right. But then again what does it matter? Does it really matter?
Then again, I'm just a filthy fucking /buyfag/ who watches over 25 insipid shit every season. I could make some long winded statement about the state of the industry as well as describing how it's in varying degrees of dead, dying or deadish. But hey, I'm a shit eater anyway.

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@cum2soon
Unless it's one of the precious few shows that Sheeky Forums seems to have some sort of gentlemans agreement not to crap on like Monogatari series

You don't even understand the fanbases you're criticizing.

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@farquit
https://twitter.com/Anonymemoose/status/634684268053143552

You can also find Shashinkan and Hinata no Aoshigure (BD version without watermark) two other Studio Colorido works there.

happy_sad
happy_sad

@MPmaster
Agree, the acting could be better too, but we already knew what we were getting into, no tricks here.
Dunno man, maybe i'm getting used to lesser quality things.
It's been too many years and the decline as been slow and steady.

I miss shit like Utena and Outlaw Star...

@Evil_kitten
"Doesn't need" does not mean "can't have". Of course i will be happy to see good quality and money well spent in any anime (even if i'm not interested in it)

takes2long
takes2long

@happy_sad
Doesn't need is an odd way to look at it, the characters gain so much more depth and nuance from the additonal effort invested in animating them and it really helps you to be sympathetic towards them. It really sells the character which is really important in SoL shows. Sure you can get by without it technically but you could do much better with it.

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

Honestly I don't care if the animation is good or bad as long as it stays fairly consistent. I watch more for the story then the animation and generally prefer the manga anyways. It's easy to appreciate good animation but story should come first.

hairygrape
hairygrape

@lostmypassword
It's easy to appreciate good animation
How come the majority of anime fans couldn't spot good animation save their life and only complain when things are so terrible it is obvious? If it was so easy to appreciate good animation there would be many more people who has favourite animators alongside favourite directors, favorutie studios, favourite seiyuu but you don't really see that. Too much effort to appreciate animation.

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@takes2long
Yeah maybe that as not fair from me, the atmosphere is really important in SOL anime.

But well, they have to choose where they are gonna spend the budget, and that usually goes to the "fuckhueg explosions and lasers" part.

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@hairygrape
Anime fans take notice of good action animation easily, but they don't seem to care about who made it aside from attributing it to a studio.

askme
askme

@hairygrape
That happens to everyone with almost anything, except hardcore fans.
Most people usually simply do not care about those details, as long as it is overall decent.

iluvmen
iluvmen

@BlogWobbles
I don't know a lot of people think scenes that aren't that impressive are fantastic either due to lack of experience or studipity. Especially stuff where there is just a lot of digital effects.

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@iluvmen
That's not too different from people thinking a show has good animation due to detailed art style but for most of the part people do notice and praise genuinely good action.

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@BlogWobbles
Anime fans tend to think a hardcore fan is someone who has just watched a lot of anime and that somehow the number of anime you have watched directly corrlates with you knowledge of the medium which has always struck me as strange.

I mean there are people who will have watch 4 or 5 hours of TV a day for 50+ years of their lives and will know nothing about television or the production of shows for television as they have just sat there watching passively for 50 years rather than reading or researching anything about it and learning.

RavySnake
RavySnake

Too much damn anime use thier premises as an elaborate excuse to do just do more of the same.

It's jarring sometimes how Japan is capeable of coming up with such off the wall ideas for shows like Satan working at McDonalds and trying to make a living so he can conquer the world; and then end up executing the show in the most creatively stagnant way possible. It almost feels like a bait and switch. Hell I've found that shows with the most generic premise tend to have a lot more going into them in terms of execution.

Emberburn
Emberburn

@SniperWish
SZS may not have been stellar when it comes to actual animation but SHAFT sure did a great job of making it look great and making it visually engaging despite that.

5mileys
5mileys

@Fuzzy_Logic
This looks really fucking good but I have a feeling it would get hard on your eyes fairly quickly.

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@Carnalpleasure
I just don't wanna know anymoooooore...

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